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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

I love shoulder. They wont sell it here.
I love shank .. lamb shank .. yum

Shame for the lamb though not much of a life.

In the UK we breed lambs/sheep for meat and their wool is an afterthought.
In Oz they breed sheep for the wool and the meat is an afterthought.
 
Yes, CANZUK.

Just fucking loon all round. The geography alone. Makes sense for Aus/NZ to have reciprocity across the Tasman, but their future is with the Asia-Pacific area, the fastest growing economic region in the world, for good or ill. And how can Canada not prioritise their nearest neighbour?

Just a fucking empire fetish. And we have a shit-bird PM who loves this bollocks.

Why am I getting so angry about this today anyway? This crap has been building for years. I'm not getting enough sunlight, perhaps.
 
Just fucking loon all round. The geography alone. Makes sense for Aus/NZ to have reciprocity across the Tasman, but their future is with the Asia-Pacific area, the fastest growing economic region in the world, for good or ill. And how can Canada not prioritise their nearest neighbour?

Just a fucking empire fetish. And we have a shit-bird PM who loves this bollocks.

Why am I getting so angry about this today anyway? This crap has been building for years. I'm not getting enough sunlight, perhaps.
CANZUK is the promised land for the ERG types. They're open about it.

Just watch how the new migration system will work... White and English speaking front of the queue.
 
Johnson is a mendacious shitweasel


Ah, you've got to love evasions and symptomatic silences. Reflecting on Wednesday's trip to Brussels, Boris Johnson said "we'll have a solution that's much more like an Australian relationship to the EU than a Canadian relationship with the EU. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing ...". A refusal to call no deal no deal, and then putting a brave face on matters is now the new Tory line. Okay. Whether this is theatre before a very Johnson climbdown (like last time) or not a bluff, both speak of utter failure. This moment is the culmination of a process 41 years old, of a disastrous dismantling of the country's social fabric to butress the power and line the pockets of the miserable minority interest the Tories stand for. Twice the Tories have purposely trashed the economy and wrecked living standards for this most frivolous of ends, and now they stand on the threshold of doing it a third time.

The question is how do the two main parties manage the politics. Because British politics is perverse, Johnson is in a good place to spin his lackadaisical and unserious trade negotiations as something positive. Or, at the very least, not damaging. The "Australian relationship" bullshit is going to fly because the media feeding the Tory base will do their stenographic best to convey the right message. The border down the Irish Sea agreed by Johnson over the body of his one-and-indivisible UK posturing didn't upset the Brexiteers, though we shouldn't be shocked given the mindset, so why would the end of this complete waste of time be any different? There are two ways Johnson can keep the ship steady amid the shoppy seas crashing against our independent coastal state.

The first, whether it's climbdown time on Sunday or full speed to the cliff edge, is the preservation of his authority. If he keeps control, spins it the right way, and isn't seen to be craven in surrender or clueless in "victory", the price paid is going to be negligible. This is a Prime Minister, you will recall, who has survived 62,000 Covid deaths without copping responsibility for his criminal negligence. More slippery than bananas on ice, not only can he lever his institutional advantage to deflect blame, problems at the ports and import delays can always get pinned on an EU determined to "punish" the UK for its instransigence. Herein lies the second aspect of Tory strategy going into the new year. Johnson is in trouble if the consequences of Brexit, deal or no, impacts directly on and is seen to hit the core Tory constituency. Food prices rises are one thing, as per Tesco's warning, but the real biggie is medical supplies and, crucially, the Pfizer vaccine manufactured in Belgium. Military airlifts are the order of the day, we've been assured (more theatre!), but if this impacts the roll out then the usual spin might not be enough.

I say might because in this moment of crisis it falls to the Leader of the Opposition to articulate discontent. The question is, will Keir Starmer do it? He's pulled his punches thus far on Coronavirus, and the shadow cabinet divides over the decision to vote for Johnson's deal (assuming he has one) are hardly best kept secrets. Saying the Brexit debate is now closed is one thing, but having the adroitness to exploit the crisis of the Tories' making is his great great unknown. You don't have to be the Oracle of Delphi to imagine Keir rising to the dispatch box to make this, again, all about Tory incompetence and nothing else. Despite no deal being the express objective of the European Research Group and sundry unattached Tories, all of whom are on the Johnson wagon and have been flattered and courted by his clownish countenance. The Labour leader has to step up and challenge the politics. Droning on about how this Brexit outcome is damaging to Britain is easy and pointless, that's the usual Project Fear stuff. The trick is demonstrating concretely how Johnsons is making life worse for those who voted Tory this time last year. Their message thrives when the consequences of their actions means making life worse for "other people". It's Keir's job to set out how what happens next will make them pick up the tab for their government's recklessness and cycnicism. If he fails, just like the Covid-19 bodycount, Johnson and the Tories will get away with it.
 
kabbes how will a WTO arrangement affect UK financial services?
Oh, the U.K. financial services already inoculated themselves from Brexit years ago. They redomiciled their European head offices to somewhere else in the continent rather than London, opened up a U.K. branch to carry on local transactions here and altered their parent-subsidiary structures so that European groups didn’t pollute the non-European stuff and vice verse. It makes no difference at this point whether there’s a deal or not — the financial services were forced to prepare for no deal by the end of 2018 anyway.
 
That government is in the bin of history. This 2019 one a different matter, they've got a plan
My point is that brexit wasn't any government's plan. I believe it was planned by people who weren't in government or at least not at cabinet level when it as planned. Brexit had been fomented for years before the actual vote.
 
My point is that brexit wasn't any government's plan. I believe it was planned by people who weren't in government or at least not at cabinet level when it as planned. Brexit had been fomented for years before the actual vote.

Nope. Some thinking did come out of there, but all were found wanting for one reason or another.

 
I cannot get stressed about this any more. No, it will not be as bad as some prophesise ( see South Africa/ Brazil World Cup horror stories), Yes, it will be a pain in the arse and will undoubtably be detrimental to many , many people in the UK in the longer term. Its out of my control. Good luck all.
 
My point is that brexit wasn't any government's plan. I believe it was planned by people who weren't in government or at least not at cabinet level when it as planned. Brexit had been fomented for years before the actual vote.

Fomented, but not (necessarily) executed. There are those who've been planning and pushing for Brexit for a long time, and I'm pretty sure at least some of the ERG-type MPs and some fellow travellers outside the parliamentary party - Crispin Odey, Jeremy Hosking and similar, plus figures more distant from the Tories, such as Arron Banks - have been trying to force the government in a no-deal direction all along. But I don't think many who've actually been in government - in the sense of being at Cabinet level - since 2016 wanted a 'no-deal' outcome. Many of them seem to have drunk their own Kool-Aid about Johnny Foreigner rolling over and giving the UK everything it wants, others overestimated their own ability to make a deal, and/or they've all been too weak, too divided or too incompetent to stop the hardliners slowly closing down the other possible outcomes.
 
On the fishing issue, here's the view of the NFFO, which speaks - generally - for the bigger players in the catching sector. It's striking how much more belligerent a tone they're striking now than they were a year or two ago, still less in 2016. Although much of the industry was vocally pro-leave, the NFFO was officially neutral in the referendum campaign and its pronouncements for a while afterwards were fairly anodyne. I suspect that reflected the fact that, although most of the industry feels (not without some justification) that it got shafted in the 70s and the CFP doesn't work in its favour, the more sensible players do also understand that a lot of them depend on being able to sell their catches into the single market. They still do, so it's quite surprising to see the NFFO being so cavalier about 'no deal.'
 
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