You forgot to mention the big "Polish/Russian anarchists with bombs scare. Socialists and "Fenians" get all the late 19th century terrorism kudos!
Of course, the Soviets killed nearly half a million Ukrainian Jews through Holodomor, along with as many as 3.5 million Ukrainians who were of any other ethnicity or religious denomination. The Nazis though - specifically the einsatzgruppen, made the Tsarists & Soviets look like true amateurs. Bastards.
And if your contention is that a concentration of people in a particular area of any given description destabilises something, you’d need to say what you think is destabilised and how it is destabilised. And then others could answer.
And it isn't zero-sum. The people of Govanhill are not just passively eating up resources. They are themselves a resource. I hate this kind of anti-human reasoning. It's both mean-spirited and wrong.
Exactly. Cites grow. They fill with people. Those people do things. If allowed, some of them become health professionals and GP practice receptionists. Whoever they are, wherever they’ve come from. People, whoever they are, don’t just take, they also give and create.
The world now is not the same as the world in 1962. And in the decades when there was free movement across the EU, the rates of immigration and net immigration went up massively. You can say "we managed" but actually we ended up with Brexit. Whatever you or I think, lots of people do not think we "managed".
There you go. 'massively'. Was it 'massively'? There are a bunch of assumptions behind the choice of that word.
Little baby Jesus conflated the two.
Did he? I’ve reread the post of his that precedes yours and I don’t see it.
And if that’s the question intended when whoever it was first tried to ask a question, then the answer is no. No it isn’t.
He did, referring to immigrants and those fleeing war in the same breath. They are not the same. Should not be treated the same.
I didn't say the numbers were massive - I said the rates went up massively. Net migration by an order of magnitude. Migration by a factor of two or three. Those are big increases in rate.
Order of magnitude can be a very misleading measure to use if the initial number is very small. From the point at which the two were roughly equal, immigration roughly doubled while emigration went up by perhaps a third. You could argue what point you should use to start that from. Perhaps you could argue that immigration tripled while emigration doubled.
Is there really much difference between people fleeing a country because we’ve dropped bombs on it and people fleeing a country because we’ve nicked its resources, propped up a dodgy government and utterly impoverished it?
This seems to be creating a straw man.
The line is often blurred.
As a major imperialist power destroying nations through economic as well as military means… yes we do.
I agree, both in the reality on the ground and deliberately by some in trying to assert we should treat all immigrants as refugees.
Majority of boat landings at the moment are Albanian men. Treat as refugees or immigrants?
Are you Suella Braverman?
That's that sorted then.
Perhaps you should join the home office?
Of course there are pushes and pulls and getting another country to train up your skilled staff is not a neutral thing to do. That question is further complicated by the issue of remittances.
I do agree with you there. There are important differences, even if it’s only because making a ‘humanitarian’ argument is usually easier
You’ve switched terms yourself. Are you now saying “immigrants” means “migrants moving for greater opportunities” but excludes those fleeing war?
Are they? I know the Tory right claim that, but I’d like to see someone less bigoted agree with them. Either way, depends on their circumstances. Just cos it’s in NATO doesn’t mean it doesn’t repress its citizens.
Well, let's be positive. At least they didn't end up over here, living next door to you or I.You forgot to mention the big "Polish/Russian anarchists with bombs scare. Socialists and "Fenians" get all the late 19th century terrorism kudos!
Of course, the Soviets killed nearly half a million Ukrainian Jews through Holodomor, along with as many as 3.5 million Ukrainians who were of any other ethnicity or religious denomination. The Nazis though - specifically the einsatzgruppen, made the Tsarists & Soviets look like true amateurs. Bastards.
But in your view, there is no number that would be "massive" for a country of 70 million - is that right?
Perhaps not. I'd only have to recite the days bullshit about the 'majority of boat crossings being Albanian men'. I don't think I could stomach it.
We don’t oppress the Albanians so don’t owe them as much as say Afghans.
