The amount and pace of migration to the UK is unprecedented

[ViolentPanda]

Increase university places and the starting pay of domestic nurses/doctors to make it a more attractive career option perhaps.

There are uni places.
What there aren't, anymore, are bursaries for nurses, so they have to pay full fees. Who the hell is going to go nearly £60,000 in debt, to take a job that even with a starting wage of £30,000pa, will see them paying off those debts for 20 yrs?

 

[kalidarkone]

Ahem, brexit.

Yes I know all the answers to my questions, just wondering if the OP does.

 

[kalidarkone]

There are uni places.
What there aren't, anymore, are bursaries for nurses, so they have to pay full fees. Who the hell is going to go nearly £60,000 in debt, to take a job that even with a starting wage of £30,000pa, will see them paying off those debts for 20 yrs?

This is why the number of people doing health and social care degree's has dropped and diversity including age had diminished (way less mature students with life experience and different skills are applying)

 

[mojo pixy]

Increase university places and the starting pay of domestic nurses/doctors to make it a more attractive career option perhaps.

...and carers in social care, and cleaners, and building site labourers, and farm labourers, and factory workers, and every other sector where immigrants make up a sizable proportion of the labour. Its not just about 'doctors and nurses' ffs - (in any case, when foreign doctors and nurses come here to work, who's looking after sick people in their home countries?)

Also - rent controls, price controls and mortgage relief, so that people can afford to live comfortably and support a family from doing these jobs, maybe even afford their own home.

There's a lot of things that would help our economy not rely so much on immigration, but I'm not seeing anti-immigrationists promoting those. Why? Because the people most opposed to immigration are in my experience also opposed to helping people not be poor.

And you haven't answered any of my previous questions, too.

 

[A380]

100% of all populations migrated from somewhere else at some point.

No, there’s these two women a bloke living in the Rift Valley…

 

[A380]

Gosh, it’s nice to have a new, interesting and genuine first time poster on here. I do wonder where this discussion started in such good faith may lead?

Spoiler

 

[danny la rouge]

No, there’s these rwo women a bloke living in the Rift Valley…

I appreciate the gag. But just in case anyone has weird misconceptions still going on: Populations have also migrated around the African continent since the dawn of humanity. Migration is not just something that happens outside Africa.

 

[danny la rouge]

Gosh, it’s nice to have a new, interesting and genuine first time poster on here. I do wonder where this discussion in good faith may lead?

Spoiler

View attachment 349593

Star of David?

 

[A380]

Star of David?

Ain’t it always the joooooooooooooooooooozs?

 

[danny la rouge]

Hardly ever: there’s not very many of them.

 

[A380]

Can someone ban this fucker off before the start of the new working week please?

‘ Monday’s poster has fear of race ‘

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Could a passing mod please change the title of the thread to ‘FamKa’s time is up’ to ensure compliance with the new urban house style please.

 

[not a trot]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

What do you think of, Sammy, our new puppy ?

 

[bimble]

OP mentions being worried about fascism gaining ground due to this country experiencing "unprecendented immigration".
A good place to start if you don't want to help the fascists might be to ask if it's actually true, and its simply not.
The idea that we are uniquely 'swamped' is just false.



i haven't got the energy and not suggesting anyone else here should spend their time on it either but at same time not convinced that 'fuck off you racist shithead' is the best response to people like this.

 

[8ball]

What do you think of, Sammy, our new puppy ?

Gonna be a big lad when he grows into those ears.

 

[LDC]

What do you think of, Sammy, our new puppy ?

Hang on a minute.... that looks like a German Shepherd, not a native born British Bulldog?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Can someone ban this fucker off before the start of the new working week please?

‘ Monday’s poster has fear of race ‘

Tuesday's poster thinks we have no more space.
Wednesday's poster out of their pram toys do they throw,
Thursday's poster says immigrants have to go.
Friday's poster cuts budgets for giving,
Saturday's poster says they work hard for a living.
And the poster starting on the Sabbath day
Hates black people, muslims, jews and the gays.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

What do you think of, Sammy, our new puppy ?

You will need a bigger bed for him soon I reckon

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Hang on a minute.... that looks like a German Shepherd, not a native born British Bulldog?

coming over here and taking our dog beds...

 

[not a trot]

Hang on a minute.... that looks like a German Shepherd, not a native born British Bulldog?

His father arrived here just before the pandemic. Housed straight away, doesn't fucking work for a living, and has fathered umpteen offspring.

 

[not a trot]

You will need a bigger bed for him soon I reckon

Waiting for him to rip that one to pieces before investing in a bigger stronger one.

 

[not a trot]

Gonna be a big lad when he grows into those ears.

Only one pointing upwards at the moment. He's going for his second jab later today

 

[furluxor]

i haven't got the energy and not suggesting anyone else here should spend their time on it either but at same time not convinced that 'fuck off you racist shithead' is the best response to people like this.

I agree with this. It seems to me that the OP wasn't trolling or trying to spread right-wing views. It's a genuine question that arises to some people who haven't read widely enough and don't understand what lies behind the anti-immigrant demagogy. Ignoring those people or calling them stupid/racist/xenophobic is a contributing factor to Brexshit, people turning right wing & a lot of current strife, I believe. There was a time when we all didn't know. Maybe some of us had the right hunch, having steeped in the right kind of environment, but we still didn't know and couldn't explain.

 

[mojo pixy]

I agree with this. It seems to me that the OP wasn't trolling or trying to spread right-wing views. It's a genuine question that arises to some people who haven't read widely enough and don't understand what lies behind the anti-immigrant demagogy. Ignoring those people or calling them stupid/racist/xenophobic is a contributing factor to Brexshit, people turning right wing & a lot of current strife, I believe. There was a time when we all didn't know. Maybe some of us had the right hunch, having steeped in the right kind of environment, but we still didn't know and couldn't explain.

This is why I addressed the OPs points one by one, and asked some very specific questions. Which have been ignored. Doesn't suggest good faith, to me.

 

[ouirdeaux]

It seems to me that the OP wasn't trolling or trying to spread right-wing views.

New poster's first post is a thread designed to attract attention by being daringly edgy. New poster does not make any posts elsewhere. New poster does not respond to direct questions.

What more would they have to do to make them look like a troll? Hold up a sign? Set it to music?

 

[furluxor]

This is why I addressed the OPs points one by one, and asked some very specific questions. Which have been ignored. Doesn't suggest good faith, to me.

Possibly because your reply was hostile and sarcastic, and called him a 'racist shit'? With the barrage that followed, I'll be surprised if OP ever comes out from under the rock.

New poster's first post is a thread designed to attract attention by being daringly edgy. New poster does not make any posts elsewhere. New poster does not respond to direct questions.

What more would they have to do to make them look like a troll? Hold up a sign? Set it to music?

I agree, it's a conspicuous topic to choose for a first post. But I don't automatically read it as trolling. OP also put in a disclaimer and mentioned his own bias. Granted, both read as 'I'm not racist but', however it could have been a genuine effort. I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt. You and I can agree to disagree.

 

[mojo pixy]

Possibly because your reply was hostile and sarcastic, and called him a 'racist shit'? With the barrage that followed, I'll be surprised if OP ever comes out from under the rock.

My reply was neither hostile nor sarcastic, but I don't play with kid gloves. And I used "racist shit" in response to the phrase "great replacement theory", which IME nobody uses innocently. There are a lot of ways I'd expect a noob to express that idea but using that specific phrase is quite telling.

 

[MickiQ]

Bit of a numbers game In 2021 there were 573,000 immigrants and 334,000 emigrants giving a net gain of 239,000 people. In 2020 (I couldn't find figures for 2021) there were 681,560 births a number which has fallen every year since 2002 and 689,629 deaths (this was up sharply from 604,707 the year before but pretty much one word (CoVID) can describe that but even so population growth through birthrates in this country effectively stopped 2 decades ago.
The birth rate in the UK is 1.62 per woman which is well below the 2.1 we need to keep the population static (the Q's have done our best to make up for the rest of you but we're on a losing streak here) so immigration is the only way that the population of this country will be maintained let alone grow. Do we want the population to grow or fall? Do we want to accept/reject/embrace the inevitable cultural changes that a ever growing immigrant population will bring with it? Lots of relevant and interesting questions there that will surely lead to a lively and often heated debate.
But the "We're being overrun by the darkies stealing our jobs, homes and women" mantra (which is really what the opening post is) is utterly ridiculous in this day and age. It was daft back in the 1950's it's even dafter now.
Also define immigrants, are there good or bad ones (my guess is that the OP would say yes and has a sharp criteria for doing so) The majority of the immigrants I've met have been white Europeans. Most of the ethnic non-white non-Anglo-Saxons I know have been born here and are thus not immigrants. Ironically the largest group of non-white immigrants (born abroad but moved here as adults) I know is my wife's mother and her sisters (and their countrymen/women who seem to be everywhere these days)

 

[nino_savatte]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

Love the disclaimer. It reminds me of "I'm not a racist, but... ".

 

[ItStillWontWork]

Theoretically, is there an upper limit to net yearly migration that Urbz would find acceptable? How much would be too much? Or is there no limit?

It strikes me that there must be a number beyond which we would see a destabilising effect, although I couldn’t tell you what that number is. People need time to settle in when they move to a place.