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The American mass shooting thread

Minnie_the_Minx said:
Switzerland maybe?

Here's a table of gun ownership. Scary stuff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
Click to expand...

I know the article kittyp mentioned, and I looked at this one and I still really doubt both of them.

Consider this, for what it' worth. I have been an American my whole life. Think of all the people you have known in your life well enough to know whether or not they have a gun in their home or any interest in guns.

I am estimating that this number for me to be at least 100 people (friends, friends' families, boyfriends, boyfriend's families, relatives, friends/partners of relatives, employers, and so on) and out of those 100 people, I have literally only known maybe 3 of them to have ever even shot a gun, or had one in their home.
Yes, I live in liberal la la land, but so does 1/3 of the country. And if the ratio is 3/100 people for us, that would have to mean the other 2/3 of the country have more like, what 3 guns per capita?

My point is not that there aren't too many guns here, or that they're not too easy to get. I agree, they are, but I just don't think the numbers are anywhere near what they're hyped up to be.
 
wiskey said:
Yes, this school had 600 pupils though which seems huge*, and was one of four primary schools in the town.

*my London secondary school had less than 500 pupils when I went there
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elementary school is kindergarten and grades 1 (the one after kindergarten) through grade 4 or 5.
so, roughly 100 kids per grade. That seems huge to you? How many kids are usually at a UK primary?
 
Miss Caphat said:
elementary school is kindergarten and grades 1 (the one after kindergarten) through grade 4 or 5.
so, roughly 100 kids per grade. That seems huge to you? How many kids are usually at a UK primary?
Click to expand...
There are 200 age 3-11 in wervs school and that is about average. 30 kids per class some years have two classes
 
wiskey said:
There are 200 age 3-11 in wervs school and that is about average. 30 kids per class some years have two classes
Click to expand...

ah, ok. well, it's about the same here, just more classes per school I guess. I think there were 3 or 4 in most of my grades growing up. The schools didn't feel big though, not even for a very shy timid kid like me. Not until middle school and high school.

how do you have enough primary schools if they each only serve 200-ish kids? I thought you were far more densely populated than we are?
 
Miss Caphat said:
I know the article kittyp mentioned, and I looked at this one and I still really doubt both of them.

Consider this, for what it' worth. I have been an American my whole life. Think of all the people you have known in your life well enough to know whether or not they have a gun in their home or any interest in guns.

I am estimating that this number for me to be at least 100 people (friends, friends' families, boyfriends, boyfriend's families, relatives, friends/partners of relatives, employers, and so on) and out of those 100 people, I have literally only known maybe 3 of them to have ever even shot a gun, or had one in their home.
Yes, I live in liberal la la land, but so does 1/3 of the country. And if the ratio is 3/100 people for us, that would have to mean the other 2/3 of the country have more like, what 3 guns per capita?

My point is not that there aren't too many guns here, or that they're not too easy to get. I agree, they are, but I just don't think the numbers are anywhere near what they're hyped up to be.
Click to expand...

That is what I was attempting to get at. Badly I imagine.
It's not the amount of guns or availability of them over all across the nation, but I am guessing that there are certain areas of society that skew the stats due multiple ownership and a collective (within that group) ideal that they feel entitled to actually use those firearms as and when they deam to be nessecary.
In a way that other groups / areas / etc do not feel.
 
Those poor families who have lost their children. One minute they're looking forward to a Christmas with their kids and then this....

It's really, really sad.
 
wiskey said:
Well in short we don't, the city I live in has a serious shortage due to a recent baby boom.
Click to expand...

You are totally right about the shortage of places in primary education but I think we have a lot more primary schools overall per square mile than the USA.
 
One thing I'd say about america did you notice how quickly they adopted a zealous near zero tolerance to tobacco,


Maybe we are missing a trick in europe...
 
wiskey said:
Well in short we don't, the city I live in has a serious shortage due to a recent baby boom.
Click to expand...

ok, I see. anyway, I don't think the difference between 200 and 600 or even 1000 kids means much at an elementary school. the kids are in their classroom of 25 to 30 kids with one teacher and one aide basically all day, so it's not intimidating for them or anything. there's usually a seperate wing for kindergarteners
 
Stops watching the news

Just heard a opinion that because this happened in a state with relatively for america strong gun control laws it somehow weakens the need for stricter gun control.

:facepalm:
 
pretty sad but i feel almost completely desensitised to this stuff now, having grown up with such news so semi-regularly. another serial killing... horrible but then every day there are oodles of kids being shot up somewhere. i know that's maybe a shit, uncompassionate way to think about it though :/ :(
 
Navdeep said:
Everyone should make an effort to find a solution to this problem
Click to expand...

as far as solutions, I just wanted to point out that schools themselves all over the country have taken a great deal of measures to avoid and deal with potential disasters like this.
All the schools I know have automatically locking doors and require any visitors to ring a bell, and have a video camera set on the all the doors so they can decide whether to let you in or not. I have been to schools to pick up kids early for appointments. etc., and have had staff actually come outside to check me out, look at my i.d., etc.
My mother who worked in schools for many years was telling me about all the new drills and procedures they have formed and been trained on.
I am baffled that they let this "heavily armed" guy in combat gear in..frankly I'm pretty much astounded.
 
Ax^ said:
Stops watching the news

Just heard a opinion that because this happened in a state with relatively for america strong gun control laws it somehow weakens the need for stricter gun control.

:facepalm:
Click to expand...

someone I was with today made the argument that if the news simply did not report this kind of thing, then we wouldn't keep seeing it so often in recent years. (school shootings in particular)
there may be some truth to this, I thought. But how do you keep it from being reported is another story.
 
Miss Caphat said:
as far as solutions, I just wanted to point out that schools themselves all over the country have taken a great deal of measures to avoid and deal with potential disasters like this.
All the schools I know have automatically locking doors and require any visitors to ring a bell, and have a video camera set on the all the doors so they can decide whether to let you in or not. I have been to schools to pick up kids early for appointments. etc., and have had staff actually come outside to check me out, look at my i.d., etc.
My mother who worked in schools for many years was telling me about all the new drills and procedures they have formed and been trained on.
I am baffled that they let this "heavily armed" guy in combat gear in..frankly I'm pretty much astounded.
Click to expand...

The interviews with small children I keep hearing on the radio :mad: say things like 'and we huddled' as if it's something that they have either discussed or practiced, I don't know if that is the case.

I guess if his mother worked at the school they either let him in cos they knew him or he stole her ID/codes and let himself in
 
Miss Caphat said:
someone I was with today made the argument that if the news simply did not report this kind of thing, then we wouldn't keep seeing it so often in recent years. (school shootings in particular)
there may be some truth to this, I thought. But how do you keep it from being reported is another story.
Click to expand...

I was more watching for the pro gun lobby's first response to this incident

Think I've gleamed the main body of their conclusions...
 
wiskey said:
The interviews with small children I keep hearing on the radio :mad: say things like 'and we huddled' as if it's something that they have either discussed or practiced, I don't know if that is the case.

I guess if his mother worked at the school they either let him in cos they knew him or he stole her ID/codes and let himself in
Click to expand...

yeah, but with 3 automatic rifles and riot gear? :hmm:
and now they're saying she didn't even work there.
I'm not blaming the school, and I think it's sad frankly that the onus falls on them more than the rest of society but wtf? he had to have slipped in through an open side door or something.
 
Is she not a kindergarten teacher there then? I'm only keeping half an ear on the World Service so perhaps not up to date
 
wiskey said:
The interviews with small children I keep hearing on the radio :mad: say things like 'and we huddled' as if it's something that they have either discussed or practiced, I don't know if that is the case.

I guess if his mother worked at the school they either let him in cos they knew him or he stole her ID/codes and let himself in
Click to expand...

as far as the huddling, etc., my understanding is that they train the school staff on what to do without the children present for the most part. But yes, they do go over things like that. I think they are told to turn off lights and move to a corner of the room, etc.

And they do get very specific w/ the staff in staff training/drills. My mom and I were watching the account of a teacher who had brought her students into a small bathroom and locked the door. She was saying how she played quiet games with them in order to distract them and keep them calm, and getting them to smile or laugh of they started crying. My mom said, "Oh yeah, that's exactly what we were trained to do."
 
wiskey said:
Is she not a kindergarten teacher there then? I'm only keeping half an ear on the World Service so perhaps not up to date
Click to expand...

That's what they were saying all day but now it looks like he shot her before going to the school, and
"State and federal authorities believe his mother may have once worked at the elementary school where Adam went on his deadly rampage, although she was not a teacher, according to relatives, perhaps a volunteer."
 
I understand training teachers/kids for earthquake drills or other naturally occurring dangerous events but there is something so utterly sad about training them to survive a school shooting :( its like you are mitigating against something unavoidable... but it isn't unavoidable, it's surely preventable somehow? How depressing
 
Miss Caphat said:
That's what they were saying all day but now it looks like he shot her before going to the school, and
"State and federal authorities believe his mother may have once worked at the elementary school where Adam went on his deadly rampage, although she was not a teacher, according to relatives, perhaps a volunteer."
Click to expand...
Oh right... I like how they are calling him by his first name :facepalm:
 
wiskey said:
I understand training teachers/kids for earthquake drills or other naturally occurring dangerous events but there is something so utterly sad about training them to survive a school shooting :( its like you are mitigating against something unavoidable... but it isn't unavoidable, it's surely preventable somehow? How depressing
Click to expand...

I totally agree. :(
 
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