Moscow concert hall shooting, 22 Mar 24

[PTK]

It's almost too good to be true.

But then in an authoritarian dictatorship, it matters less that you catch the right people than that you catch someone.

It was the same in Britain in the 1970s, hence the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four.

 

[existentialist]

It was the same in Britain in the 1970s, hence the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four.

Yes, I referenced the Birmingham 6 up there somewhere.

 

[likesfish]

It was the same in Britain in the 1970s, hence the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four.

tbf nobody suggested the government actually carried out the attack which is not a zero chance with poo tin

 

[Petcha]

Interesting method of 'interrogation'.

A telegram channel linked to Wagner paramilitary force said the picture of Fariddun shows how 'an ordinary interrogation takes place using a military field telephone TA-57, in common parlance 'Tapik'.

'By turning the coil…discharges are released through the wires... up to 80 volts, which in turn are connected to the prisoner by the fingers, ears or genitals…

'For best effect, the captured militant should be poured with water.'

The photo follows an incident when one of the suspect's ears was cut off on camera with a knife when he was detained in Bryansk region on Sunday.

A video shows a Russian agent trying to force the suspect to eat the ear, which he spits out.

In another video, the same suspect has his head bandaged and his face is covered in blood.

 

[Yossarian]

I wonder if Putin will continue pushing a load of crap about Ukrainian involvement when there's evidence of the suspects being tortured so severely that they'd admit to being Olena Zelenska in disguise

 

[Dogsauce]

Not sure if that allegation was linked to the guy knocked out by a bloke/ blokes in the audience incident that JimW said was in Chinese media . The one killed at the scene story was in the BBC Russia article however I think the authorities have a line that there were 4 attackers not 5 ?

There were reports of one killed at the venue and one killed when the car was intercepted. Neither seem to be true, seems a bit odd but that’s not unusual in these situations, eg in some of the American mass shootings there’s often been reports of multiple shooters when in fact only one was present. Perhaps someone who looked a bit like they came from the caucuses got shot by the terrorists and an assumption was made when someone saw the corpse?

The torture thing seems to have definitely happened, one cop cut off a suspect’s ear and made them eat it, there’s been some later claim that this didn’t happen but footage exists, the cop doing it also has a black sun patch and is linked to the Rusich fascist group, they’re even auctioning the knife claimed to have been used. Sick fucks. Some of the American far right are complaining that their cops don’t act like this.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There were reports of one killed at the venue and one killed when the car was intercepted. Neither seem to be true, seems a bit odd but that’s not unusual in these situations, eg in some of the American mass shootings there’s often been reports of multiple shooters when in fact only one was present. Perhaps someone who looked a bit like they came from the caucuses got shot by the terrorists and an assumption was made when someone saw the corpse?

The torture thing seems to have definitely happened, one cop cut off a suspect’s ear and made them eat it, there’s been some later claim that this didn’t happen but footage exists, the cop doing it also has a black sun patch and is linked to the Rusich fascist group, they’re even auctioning the knife claimed to have been used. Sick fucks. Some of the American far right are complaining that their cops don’t act like this.

They showed pictures of them in court, one with an ear missing, another with an eye gouged out, another with a plastic bag tied round his neck and another unconscious in a wheelchair.

 

[Silas Loom]

From the Graun:

the Russian foreign ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, disregarded the US intelligence reports that IS was behind the attacks. “I wish they could have solved the assassination of their own President Kennedy so quickly,” she wrote on Telegram. “But no, for more than 60 years they have not been able to find out who killed him after all. Or maybe that was Isis too?”

“Until the investigation into the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall is completed, any phrase from Washington exonerating Kyiv should be considered as evidence,” she added. “After all, the financing of terrorist activities of the Kyiv organised criminal group by the American liberal democrats and participation in the corrupt schemes of the Biden family have been going on for many years.”

Interesting that she echoes MAGA talking points in the last sentence.

 

[Pickman's model]

From the Graun:

the Russian foreign ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, disregarded the US intelligence reports that IS was behind the attacks. “I wish they could have solved the assassination of their own President Kennedy so quickly,” she wrote on Telegram. “But no, for more than 60 years they have not been able to find out who killed him after all. Or maybe that was Isis too?”

“Until the investigation into the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall is completed, any phrase from Washington exonerating Kyiv should be considered as evidence,” she added. “After all, the financing of terrorist activities of the Kyiv organised criminal group by the American liberal democrats and participation in the corrupt schemes of the Biden family have been going on for many years.”

Interesting that she echoes MAGA talking points in the last sentence.

Yeh you have it the wrong way round, maga echo kremlin talking points.

 

[The39thStep]

There were reports of one killed at the venue and one killed when the car was intercepted. Neither seem to be true, seems a bit odd but that’s not unusual in these situations, eg in some of the American mass shootings there’s often been reports of multiple shooters when in fact only one was present. Perhaps someone who looked a bit like they came from the caucuses got shot by the terrorists and an assumption was made when someone saw the corpse?

The torture thing seems to have definitely happened, one cop cut off a suspect’s ear and made them eat it, there’s been some later claim that this didn’t happen but footage exists, the cop doing it also has a black sun patch and is linked to the Rusich fascist group, they’re even auctioning the knife claimed to have been used. Sick fucks. Some of the American far right are complaining that their cops don’t act like this.

Yup as I said earlier the BBC reported the claims in your first paragraph however the narrative seems to be the four that were arrested are the four that did the shootings and yes the torture stuff did happen .

 

[The39thStep]

On the victim side, there are a number of suggestions that many may have died from smoke inhalation rather than shooting

 

[bcuster]

Here are the cowardly scum; "allegedly"

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/eefcfVDVsoIQece.oTqu5g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTE5MjA7aD0xMDgwO2NmPXdlYnA-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/cnn_articles_875/252db9b75ac5be69a6b1741b326051b9

 

[Mezzer]

Imagine if they weren't just 'suspects'.

 

[The39thStep]

Aric Toler's ( Bellingcat) article in English which pretty much takes the same material as the article from The Insider that I posted yesterday

https://archive.ph/l1cd4

Putin's latest position is a sort of ' ISIS carried the attack out but who were their paymasters? Why were they heading for the Ukrainian border? ' and then a load of stuff about Nazis/Ukraine etc

Meduza have reported that those charged have named a mastermind ( their wording not mine) . There have also been a number of arrests for supplying the car and aiding and abetting the four .

https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/03/25/russian-investigations-chief-tells-putin-that-the-concert-hall-attack-suspects-named-a-mastermind-after-being-tortured

 

[pbsmooth]

The NYT has said it believes the people who did the attack are the people in the court based on the videos and some digging on social. And that they’re linked to IS.

Videos and Online Profiles Link Suspects to Moscow Attack

Clothing and other details appear to show a connection between four suspects detained by Russia and the men who carried out the concert hall massacre of more than 130 people.

www.nytimes.com

 

[The39thStep]

The NYT has said it believes the people who did the attack are the people in the court based on the videos and some digging on social. And that they’re linked to IS.

Videos and Online Profiles Link Suspects to Moscow Attack

Clothing and other details appear to show a connection between four suspects detained by Russia and the men who carried out the concert hall massacre of more than 130 people.

www.nytimes.com

This is the same article as i posted , mine doesn't have a paywall

 

[pbsmooth]

This is the same article as i posted , mine doesn't have a paywall

Ah right sorry I was thrown by the Bellingcat mention but get it now.

 

[The39thStep]

Another ISIS media release this time saying that they will take revenge for their members being tortured in Russia. Must be the first time I can recall ISIS having to repeatedly claim that they have carried out a terrorist act because of alternative theories.

 

[Petcha]

One small part of me does find it hilarious that ISIS seems a bit pissed off that Putin is crediting Ukraine with this. To the point where they keep having to post up more shit proving it was them and not Kyiv. All so juvenile.

 

[The39thStep]

One small part of me does find it hilarious that ISIS seems a bit pissed off that Putin is crediting Ukraine with this. To the point where they keep having to post up more shit proving it was them and not Kyiv. All so juvenile.

Not just the Putin Ukraine claim, the first tranche all over social media , including some people who really should know better , was the false flag theory.

 

[Riklet]

Hard to feel too much sympathy for these shitbags but shows just how far Russia has gone that this torture evidence is so open, they have someone half dead wheeled into court etc. Unimaginable even 10 years ago. All while more xenophobic racist rhetoric gets whipped up against foreigners and minorities. It's so obviously IS and so obviously a massive intelligence failure. And so obviously was preventable too, if US intelligence were aware of it etc.

This is the country Ukraine is meant to surrender to in order for peace to prevail for decades. Yeah right.

 

[Spymaster]

Hard to feel too much sympathy for these shitbags but shows just how far Russia has gone that this torture evidence is so open, they have someone half dead wheeled into court etc. Unimaginable even 10 years ago. All while more xenophobic racist rhetoric gets whipped up against foreigners and minorities. It's so obviously IS and so obviously a massive intelligence failure. And so obviously was preventable too, if US intelligence were aware of it etc.

This is the country Ukraine is meant to surrender to in order for peace to prevail for decades. Yeah right.

Agree with most of that but I'm not sure how preventable it would have been despite the US warning. As far as I'm aware the US just said there was a likelihood of a terrorist attack in or around Moscow, and warned people to avoid public gatherings. The Russians probably took it very seriously indeed in actuality but dismissed it publicly. Short of shutting down all public gatherings, without some pretty specific intelligence, I suspect it's very difficult to stop 4 determined blokes with machine guns and all the time in the world, from striking sooner or later.

 

[Dogsauce]

Not just the Putin Ukraine claim, the first tranche all over social media , including some people who really should know better , was the false flag theory.

Tbf they do have form for this. The ‘false flag lite’ theory being floated now following further evidence is that they let it happen rather than perpetrated it themselves.

 

[Dogsauce]

Agree with most of that but I'm not sure how preventable it would have been despite the US warning. As far as I'm aware the US just said there was a likelihood of a terrorist attack in or around Moscow, and warned people to avoid public gatherings. The Russians probably took it very seriously indeed in actuality but dismissed it publicly. Short of shutting down all public gatherings, without some pretty specific intelligence, I suspect it's very difficult to stop 4 determined blokes with machine guns and all the time in the world, from striking sooner or later.

The US warning did specify concert halls, but also said ‘in the next 48 hours’. There a photo of one of the attackers claimed to be taken in the concert hall on 7th May, potentially scoping it out, consistent with the date of the US warning, and speculation they originally intended to attack the following day (perhaps the public warning deterred them?).

Also the US would have shared more details with Russia than they did with the public, although I’ve also seen claims that the US knowledge of a forthcoming attack came from Russian intelligence anyway (it was directed at their own citizens in Russia)

 

[Spymaster]

Also the US would have shared more details with Russia than they did with the public ...

You'd expect that to have been the case, although you'd also wonder what strings the intelligence would come with. Clearly the US aren't only communicating with Russia through the press. Weren't the initial warnings suggesting an attack "within a month"?

Also not sure how much faith we should have in any evidence produced by Russia against the people they've got in custody. We've already seen one with his bollocks wired to a battery, and another missing an eye.

 

[Silas Loom]

You'd expect that to have been the case, although you'd also wonder what strings the intelligence would come with. Clearly the US aren't only communicating with Russia through the press. Weren't the initial warnings suggesting an attack "within a month"?

Also not sure how much faith we should have in any evidence produced by Russia against the people they've got in custody. We've already seen one with his bollocks wired to a battery, and another missing an eye.

We know they have the right people, because of the photographic evidence which is reliably attributable to IS channels, showing the same group before the attack as we saw in the post-detention videos.

We know that anything that Russia says about motive and funding for the operation will be false, because its overriding objective is its war on Ukraine, and its strategy across areas of IS activity is dictated by transactional alliances and short-term goals, to which immediate revenge would be irrelevant.

So it doesn’t matter in the slightest what evidence is produced.

 

[Spymaster]

We know they have the right people, because of the photographic evidence which is reliably attributable to IS channels, showing the same group before the attack as we saw in the post-detention videos.

Is that confirmed now?

 

[The39thStep]

Tbf they do have form for this. The ‘false flag lite’ theory being floated now following further evidence is that they let it happen rather than perpetrated it themselves.

To be fair as in jumping in with false flag explanations as soon as it's reported that shootings are taking place in a concert hall complex? Or as in to be fair people blaming any bombing incident only a few years ago on Islamacists, without any evidence, on the grounds they had form for it?

Perhaps in some cases it is understandable that some folk have their suspicions based on current moods , media and prejudices however there were a lot of people who like to portray themselves as serious, in the know types , specialists bandying about false flag from hour one.

I think Bellincat had the right line on its Discord in that it banned and threw off anyone coming out with wild speculation.

 

[Silas Loom]

Is that confirmed now?

It’s been reported as fact by news organisations which like to think of themselves as journals of record. I haven’t seen any commentary from Western intelligence sources, though there may well be some.

 

[The39thStep]

Is that confirmed now?

In both articles I posted.