Moscow concert hall shooting, 22 Mar 24

[TopCat]

russian blaming the Ukrainian who'd of thunk it

will the collective evidence be allowed to be review by an international team

Yeah like the investigations into nord stream two.

 

[redsquirrel]

I don't think one has to be an expert to recognise that assigning roles to nation states, any state, is the crudest nationalist nonsense. Especially when such roles collapse down the centuries long complex geo-political interactions of states into a silly soundbite.

 

[TopCat]

I don't think one has to be an expert to recognise that assigning roles to nation states, any state, the crudest nationalist nonsense. Especially when such roles collapse down the centuries long complex geo-political interactions of states into silly soundbite.

I read that three times. Can you elucidate?

 

[redsquirrel]

I read that three times. Can you elucidate?

Directed at the nonsense posted above you

 

[TopCat]

Directed at the nonsense posted above you

Ok. I’m going to have more coffee and a bath and try again.

 

[Ax^]

I don't think one has to be an expert to recognise that assigning roles to nation states, any state, the crudest nationalist nonsense. Especially when such roles collapse down the centuries long complex geo-political interactions of states into silly soundbite.

well I'm not going back to Mesolithic for the general role in geopolitics my good fellow

 

[redsquirrel]

You're not going anywhere. You're posting your usual ill thought out (ideologically shot through) twaddle.

 

[Ax^]

only place I'm going this morning is work so I revert later

7am on a bank holiday is not the time to be arguing with you

as you were

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't think one has to be an expert to recognise that assigning roles to nation states, any state, is the crudest nationalist nonsense. Especially when such roles collapse down the centuries long complex geo-political interactions of states into a silly soundbite.

Is there perhaps a possibility that there are temporary "roles" that some states assume/earn/get assigned fairly or unfairly? (For want of better terminology)

For example, the US is often seen (by itself and supporters of it's foreign policy) as a protector policing the free world.

 

[The39thStep]

Is there perhaps a possibility that there are temporary "roles" that some states assume/earn/get assigned fairly or unfairly? (For want of better terminology)

For example, the US is often seen (by itself and supporters of it's foreign policy) as a protector policing the free world.

Of course, there is. Depends on which end of their gun you are looking down. I think redsquirrel was just trying to address the Xmas cracker type comments from that poster.

 

[krtek a houby]

Of course, there is. Depends on which end of their gun you are looking down. I think redsquirrel was just trying to address the Xmas cracker type comments from that poster.

Some of us may appear more refined in analysis skills.
fwiw, I value both posters' contributions.

 

[Ax^]

] was just trying to address the Xmas cracker type comments from that poster.

well one thing is consistent with any russian theme threads on the boards atm

 

[The39thStep]

9 detained in Tajikistan in connection with the terrorist attack at Crocus. ( another site says were detained in the city of Vahdat, where two of the terrorists lived)

https://www.reuters.com/world/tajikistan-detains-9-people-over-russian-concert-shooting-source-2024-03-29/

This follows 211 arrests of those suspected with links to IS , since the Crocus terrorist attack, in Turkey.

Moscow attack: Turkey tracks down numerous active IS networks

Turkish police are stepping up operations against individuals suspected of being linked to the Islamic State organization. Two of the Moscow attack's alleged perpetrators are said to have transited through Istanbul.

www.lemonde.fr

 

[teqniq]

9 detained in Tajikistan in connection with the terrorist attack at Crocus. ( another site says were detained in the city of Vahdat, where two of the terrorists lived)

https://www.reuters.com/world/tajikistan-detains-9-people-over-russian-concert-shooting-source-2024-03-29/

This follows 211 arrests of those suspected with links to IS , since the Crocus terrorist attack, in Turkey.

Moscow attack: Turkey tracks down numerous active IS networks

Turkish police are stepping up operations against individuals suspected of being linked to the Islamic State organization. Two of the Moscow attack's alleged perpetrators are said to have transited through Istanbul.

www.lemonde.fr

Oh the irony. Turkey, who actively supported IS in Syria mainly because they were fighting the Kurds, suddenly find it expedient to arrest people in IS networks they will have known about for ages.

 

[The39thStep]

Oh the irony. Turkey, who actively supported IS in Syria mainly because they were fighting the Kurds, suddenly find it expedient to arrest people in IS networks they will have known about for ages.

Erdogan's role as a part time would be up and coming world statesman has been interesting during this war.

 

[ska invita]

Fascinating as how far you can control public understanding

 

[Ax^]

surprise it not higher control the media control the masses

 

[Cid]

FT article on the above:

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://archive.ph/qJltK

 

[ska invita]

Not really a a Russian thing, heres the USA

 

[Magnus McGinty]

FT article on the above:

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://archive.ph/qJltK

More than 75 per cent of respondents considered Putin to be the most reliable or a completely reliable source of information about the attack, OpenMinds data shows.

 

[PTK]

.

 

[Ax^]

.

 

[The39thStep]

Not really a a Russian thing, heres the USA

View attachment 418028

Control the media , control the masses

 

[two sheds]

As I recall during the Iraq War there were questionnaires and the mainly Fox News viewers had in-depth knowledge of the US troops there and weapons they used, their speed and range. Whereas the other viewers knew more about Iraq, where it was, who lived there, and what the war was about.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

FT article on the above:

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

https://archive.ph/qJltK

There are lots of reasons not to trust polling in Russia. This article outlines some of the problems.

The silent nation: Why wartime opinion polls cannot be trusted

Mr. Yudin emphasizes that lack of trust, especially towards the government, is cited as a key reason for refusals. In Russia, there is a deep-seated belief that pollsters are linked to the government:

“In Russia, surveys are viewed as a form of interaction with the government, as a tool of oversight"

Given the distrust of the state, respondents are unlikely to believe that their opinions are going to remain anonymous, so will respond accordingly, if they respond at all. If in doubt, repeat what Putin just said.

 

[The39thStep]

There are lots of reasons not to trust polling in Russia. This article outlines some of the problems.

The silent nation: Why wartime opinion polls cannot be trusted



Given the distrust of the state, respondents are unlikely to believe that their opinions are going to remain anonymous, so will respond accordingly, if they respond at all. If in doubt, repeat what Putin just said.

In the FT article it says the poll is by an Anglo/Ukrainian company .

 

[PTK]

In the FT article it says the poll is by an Anglo/Ukrainian company .

I don't think that that would make much difference. I think people in some circumtances are reluctant to voice their opinions, whoever asks them. How do you know for certain that the company asking you the questions will not pass on your responses to the state?

 

[The39thStep]

I don't think that that would make much difference. I think people in some circumtances are reluctant to voice their opinions, whoever asks them. How do you know for certain that the company asking you the questions will not pass on your responses to the state?

Or states .

 

[Cid]

There are lots of reasons not to trust polling in Russia. This article outlines some of the problems.

The silent nation: Why wartime opinion polls cannot be trusted



Given the distrust of the state, respondents are unlikely to believe that their opinions are going to remain anonymous, so will respond accordingly, if they respond at all. If in doubt, repeat what Putin just said.

It did strike me as a little odd for the FT to not mention that more... though has these two paras:

“Russians are good at repeating propaganda narratives in opinion polls,” said Aleksei Miniailo, Moscow-based opposition activist and a co-founder of Chronicles, a public opinion research project. This was not so much a “sign of active support” as a “reflection of them feeling unable to make any changes”, he said.

Surveys by Chronicles show many people replied “yes” to general questions, such as whether they supported the war, but “no” to more nuanced queries, such as whether they backed more public money being spent on the war than on social welfare, he added.

But more broadly than that 'an Anglo-Ukrainian online pollster that shared its results with the FT' (my bold) is surely going to run into some issues with er... thingy. The word for getting the right balance of demographics. Also 642 polled is lower than e.g Ipsos (seem to run at about 1,100 for general opinion stuff) or yougov ('1626 - 3326 GB Adults per wave' for their monthly trackers), Russia obvs double the population.

I've no particular interest in getting into the weeds more than that, just felt the headline ska posted needed a bit of context.