Moscow concert hall shooting, 22 Mar 24

[emanymton]

To be fair as in jumping in with false flag explanations as soon as it's reported that shootings are taking place in a concert hall complex? Or as in to be fair people blaming any bombing incident only a few years ago on Islamacists, without any evidence, on the grounds they had form for it?

Perhaps in some cases it is understandable that some folk have their suspicions based on current moods , media and prejudices however there were a lot of people who like to portray themselves as serious, in the know types , specialists bandying about false flag from hour one.

I think Bellincat had the right line on its Discord in that it banned and threw off anyone coming out with wild speculation.

One of the many issues with it being a false flag is why? What is the benefit of it?

 

[The39thStep]

No idea if this is real btw but the ISIS media team be sweating about their future careers if they cant even convince this lot

 

[Dogsauce]

One of the many issues with it being a false flag is why? What is the benefit of it?

Conspiraloons don’t do ‘why’, we should have enough examples to know this by now (e.g, the idea people spent months installing explosives in the WTC, because flying a plane into it and killing hundreds simply wouldn’t be enough of a pretext for war).

Though in this specific case, the ‘false flag’ would be for Russia to bring in more extreme domestic terror laws (which are already draconian enough, and they could just do this anyway), to frighten the public into obedience/loyalty to the flag (already a war doing this for them), or prosecute their war against Ukraine more ruthlessly (they’re already doing the best they can).

The ‘Ukraine did it’ makes even less sense, the only motive I could think of would be as a distraction/diversion, forcing Russia to use resources on another front.

 

[nogojones]

Another ISIS media release this time saying that they will take revenge for their members being tortured in Russia. Must be the first time I can recall ISIS having to repeatedly claim that they have carried out a terrorist act because of alternative theories.

If Bin Laden was still up and about, I'm sure he'd be on the telly saying it wasn't a fucking hologram!

 

[The39thStep]

You'd expect that to have been the case, although you'd also wonder what strings the intelligence would come with. Clearly the US aren't only communicating with Russia through the press. Weren't the initial warnings suggesting an attack "within a month"?

Also not sure how much faith we should have in any evidence produced by Russia against the people they've got in custody. We've already seen one with his bollocks wired to a battery, and another missing an eye.

I'm partially ashamed to admit that I just learnt that the 'battery' is a TA-57 soviet era field telephone and its euphemism in torture is 'a phone call to Putin'

 

[Silas Loom]

I'm partially ashamed to admit that I just learnt that the 'battery' is a TA-57 soviet era field telephone and its euphemism in torture is 'a phone call to Putin'

It doesn’t say much for Russian military capabilities that field telephony kit hasn’t been upgraded as TETRA and satellite comms and GSM standards have evolved. Nope, still requires the kind of batteries that come in handy for formal interviews.

 

[The39thStep]

It doesn’t say much for Russian military capabilities that field telephony kit hasn’t been upgraded as TETRA and satellite comms and GSM standards have evolved. Nope, still requires the kind of batteries that come in handy for formal interviews.

I think this is what one of the ISIS lads was saying off camera

 

[Pickman's model]

It doesn’t say much for Russian military capabilities that field telephony kit hasn’t been upgraded as TETRA and satellite comms and GSM standards have evolved. Nope, still requires the kind of batteries that come in handy for formal interviews.

You say that without any obvious investigation of the matter eg Russian Comms in Ukraine: A World of Hertz. i don't think these telephones are kept for their telephonic purpose

 

[extra dry]

Was it ISIS-K or Whom?

 

[Spymaster]

Apparently Britain had a hand in it too.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apparently Britain had a hand in it too.

tbh the planning's beyond anything this cackhanded government could put together

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Apparently Britain had a hand in it too.

All the hallmarks of a NATO operation.

Told ya.

 

[PTK]

How do we know that the IS claims are genuine?
Someone said something about IS having a Telegram account (which I know is some kind of social media thingy), but how do we know who runs that account?

 

[kebabking]

How do we know that the IS claims are genuine?
Someone said something about IS having a Telegram account (which I know is some kind of social media thingy), but how do we know who runs that account?

I've not looked today, but I think Bellingcat were happy that the Telegram channels it was originally posted on were ISIS-K controlled and operated channels, and the the follow up posts were from the same

If it's not ISIS-K, it's a very well constructed fake - and there's no indication from any other previously verified ISIS-K communication channel saying 'hang on, we've been hacked!!'.

Reasonable working assumption that it's real.

 

[The39thStep]

BBC Russia reporting a slightly different version of the 'they were heading to the Ukraine border' theory from Lukashenko . Some reports I read on Sunday said that the motorway the terrorists were travelling on had been closed off and they had had to take more minor roads, they also said there was a car chase and shots exchanged so unless someone has got the sat nav with their original destination god knows.

 

[likesfish]

I'm partially ashamed to admit that I just learnt that the 'battery' is a TA-57 soviet era field telephone and its euphemism in torture is 'a phone call to Putin'

there was a old field telephone or radio that came with a wind up generator that could apprantly be used for torture.

 

[Pickman's model]

there was a old field telephone or radio that came with a wind up generator that could apprantly be used for torture.

yeh back in the day it's a wind-up wasn't a practical joke or prank

 

[The39thStep]

there was a old field telephone or radio that came with a wind up generator that could apprantly be used for torture.

I really shouldn't be having to tell you this TA-57 - Wikipedia

 

[Riklet]

Agree with most of that but I'm not sure how preventable it would have been despite the US warning. As far as I'm aware the US just said there was a likelihood of a terrorist attack in or around Moscow, and warned people to avoid public gatherings. The Russians probably took it very seriously indeed in actuality but dismissed it publicly. Short of shutting down all public gatherings, without some pretty specific intelligence, I suspect it's very difficult to stop 4 determined blokes with machine guns and all the time in the world, from striking sooner or later.

There were warnings for weeks about terrorist attacks imminent, specifically against concert halls.

If they have the military power to take over a chunk of Ukraine you would have thought they might have some police and military forces spare to keep an eye on such locations. I suspect it was not taken fully seriously as a) the US was publicly warning of these dangers, basically making Russia look bad and b) it didn't fit the government narrative about Ukraine/Nazis/terrorists/Greater Russia. IS has thus slipped under the radar.

I would still class this as a catastrophic failing. Imagine if this happened in a Western country there would be a massive outcry by now. But yeah, this is Russia we are talking about. No one wants their bollocks wired up to a Soviet phone for Telegram groups to enjoy.

 

[Pickman's model]

I really shouldn't be having to tell you this TA-57 - Wikipedia

i see it's used by ukraine too.

 

[Spymaster]

I would still class this as a catastrophic failing. Imagine if this happened in a Western country there would be a massive outcry by now.

I think rather that it points to how good a job western security services are doing by comparison.

 

[PTK]

I miss the old days when the

There were warnings for weeks about terrorist attacks imminent, specifically against concert halls.

If they have the military power to take over a chunk of Ukraine you would have thought they might have some police and military forces spare to keep an eye on such locations. I suspect it was not taken fully seriously as a) the US was publicly warning of these dangers, basically making Russia look bad and b) it didn't fit the government narrative about Ukraine/Nazis/terrorists/Greater Russia. IS has thus slipped under the radar.

I would still class this as a catastrophic failing. Imagine if this happened in a Western country there would be a massive outcry by now. But yeah, this is Russia we are talking about. No one wants their bollocks wired up to a Soviet phone for Telegram groups to enjoy.

"There were warnings for weeks about terrorist attacks imminent, specifically against concert halls."

Can you cite a source for this claim?

 

[Dogsauce]

I think rather that it points to how good a job western security services are doing by comparison.

Stuff like Manchester Arena says not. We also had gun-happy cops shoot some poor innocent bloke on the tube in their post-terror frenzy, then lie about it.

 

[Spymaster]

Stuff like Manchester Arena says not.

Nah. For every one that happens, loads are stopped. The surprise is how few successful attacks there are.

 

[krtek a houby]

Stuff like Manchester Arena says not. We also had gun-happy cops shoot some poor innocent bloke on the tube in their post-terror frenzy, then lie about it.

Yep. Going back further, cops rounding up innocent Irish people and the "justice" system putting them in jail to rot for years. And, of course , the British security forces running amok in the occupied 6 counties.

 

[The39thStep]

Moving on from 'the west has got the best security services in the world ' here's an interesting little article about the terrorists' car route. The whole article needs translation however here are the highlights including that the car picked up 6 speeding fines.

"Traffic police officers chased the car for some time, and then started shooting at the wheels, including with automatic weapons. At some point, the car lost control and then stopped, three of the four passengers managed to escape into the forest. From other stories it follows that this happened at the 376th kilometer of the highway - that is, the chase lasted almost 20 kilometers.

The chase began at the 359th kilometer of the highway, the inspector says. This place is located near the village of Maloye Polpino and a few kilometers before the interchange to Bryansk. After it, the M-3 highway continues towards Ukraine, and another road - A-240 - goes towards Belarus. Therefore, it is impossible to say what the criminals were planning before the start of the chase: to drive further along the M-3 or turn onto Bryansk and move towards the Belarusian Gomel.

After the traffic police began to pursue the Renault, the car only moved straight - towards Ukraine. But this hardly says anything about the original plans. It is more likely that the fugitives simply did not want to turn anywhere, so as not to slow down and not get caught in denser traffic near Bryansk.

The Dossier Center has reconstructed the route of the alleged terrorists from Crocus City Hall to their arrest in the Bryansk region. The car with the number T668UM69 was racing at high speed; in the first half hour after the terrorist attack, it traveled more than 50 kilometers. This can be seen from the information on the official website of the traffic police . The car left the Crocus no later than 20:13 , and already at 20:43 it was on the 45th kilometer of the M-3 highway, where it was driving at a speed of 117 km/h with a permitted speed of 90 km/h. This was also reported by Important Stories.

In just an hour and a half since the terrorist attack, Renault managed to rack up six fines, one of them for a speed of 141 km/h. The last fine “arrived” to the car in the Kaluga region, just south of the city of Obninsk, at the 108th kilometer of the M-3 highway.

Ночная гонка от «Крокуса»

Почему террористы могли ехать как в Украину, так и в Беларусь

dossier.center

 

[Spymaster]

Moving on from 'the west has got the best security services in the world ' here's an interesting little article about the terrorists' car route. The whole article needs translation however here are the highlights including that the car picked up 6 speeding fines.

Ночная гонка от «Крокуса»

Почему террористы могли ехать как в Украину, так и в Беларусь

dossier.center

Let's hope they make them pay the fines.

 

[Petcha]

One small thing i find slightly bizarre is that these guys were wearing 'camouflage'. Ie, army uniforms. In a posh concert hall. I think they're slightly missing the point of 'camouflage'.

I think chinos and a nice shirt would probably blend in better.

 

[Pickman's model]

One small thing i find slightly bizarre is that these guys were wearing 'camouflage'. Ie, army uniforms. In a posh concert hall. I think they're slightly missing the point of 'camouflage'.

I think chinos and a nice shirt would probably blend in better.

Yeh but presumably for their own safety, so they didn't shoot each other

 

[klang]