Why do so-called American patriots flock to the most unpatriotic people?

[Jennaonthebeach]

How is an austrian accent ludicrous?
And why is it less germanic than a bavarian, swabian or frankian accent?

I understand that Hitler's accent was akin to a broad westcountry accent, and was one that was widely mocked at that time. Being someone who was blessed with such an accent (Westcountry, not Austrian) when i first moved to London I can accept some accents lead to widespread mockery even if i don't really understand why?

 

[klang]

I understand that Hitler's accent was akin to a broad westcountry accent, and was one that was widely mocked at that time. Being someone who was blessed with such an accent (Westcountry, not Austrian) when i first moved to London I can accept some accents lead to widespread mockery even if i don't really understand why?

the difference being that Braunau accent is Upper Austrian, whilst yours is Westcountry English.

 

[JimW]

See also flag-shagging Tories 'standing up for Britain' or whatever else they claim whilst selling off the country's assets to fund the next tax cut election bribe.

Or the NHS, probably one of few genuinely widely supported national institutions, to international medical businesses.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

the difference being that Braunau accent is Upper Austrian, whilst yours is Westcountry English.

yeah, i didn't need that to be pointed out to me, genius.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well, this is all going well. Calling each other traitors and mocking each others accents. When the enemy is “patriots”.

 

[DotCommunist]

one of few genuinely widely supported national institutions

to see that support-given because we all use it and we all know what the alternatives would be if it was gone- to see that portrayed as dewy eyed nostalgia or described as how people 'make a religion' of the NHS and so on. Properly winds me up. Its done to paint that support as naive and unworldly as opposed to the wes streetings of this earth with their (well funded) 'pragmatism' and bungs.

 

[ska invita]

this was a Trump classic

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I'd say it's because sincere patriotism is too collectivist for American conservatism, which holds much tighter to the principle of "fuck you loser, I've got mine".

ditto their "christianity" which is about as far away from from the gospels of Christ as could possibly be imagined.

 

[NoXion]

ditto their "christianity" which is about as far away from from the gospels of Christ as could possibly be imagined.

The scriptural Jesus is already proving too "liberal" and "weak" for the likes of modern Evangelicals:

Christianity Today Editor: Evangelicals Call Jesus “Liberal” and “Weak”

A former evangelical leader is sounding the alarm about the direction his religion is headed in.

newrepublic.com

 

[nightowl]

ditto their "christianity" which is about as far away from from the gospels of Christ as could possibly be imagined.

Goes for a lot of our Christian politicians too. Zero compassion, Blair praying before letting the missiles fly etc etc.

 

[NoXion]

Sure, if they say one thing and do the opposite, of course. The point though is more if someone declares their loyalty to someone, and their actions contrast with someone else's idea of what that loyalty means, does that mean they're wrong?

So what are you saying, these folk are loyal to Trump etc more than the US itself? I can get behind that idea, but isn't that in support of the OP?

 

[gosub]

the difference being that Braunau accent is Upper Austrian, whilst yours is Westcountry English.

and he invaded Poland

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

So what are you saying, these folk are loyal to Trump etc more than the US itself? I can get behind that idea, but isn't that in support of the OP?

More that patriotism is inherently selling a story and that that story normally (always?) involves a negative side - at best its always going to have in group and out group thinking isn't it. So I'm questioning the attempt to create a 'better' standard of patriotism against which the Trumpy patriots fail because who's to say their version is wrong?

I think it tends to end up down the route where someone like a Keir Starmer will stick the flag all over everything and all the people who really care keep voting for the Tories or UKIP.

 

[danny la rouge]

and he invaded Poland

And that's people from Braunau, is it?

Uh, no, no, no. That's just him.

Ohh, I was going to say, Otherwise, there'd be a lot of them.

 

[gosub]

And that's people from Braunau, is it?

Uh, no, no, no. That's just him.

Ohh, I was going to say, Otherwise, there'd be a lot of them.

Just try to differentiate b4 the Wurzels end up being worse the Hitler

 

[PTK]

Last refuge of a scoundrel, innit.

The USA or patriotism?

 

[PTK]

Well, this is all going well. Calling each other traitors and mocking each others accents. When the enemy is “patriots”.

.

 

[gosub]

The USA or patriotism?

Oh there's an idea for a thread...I reckon Dubai (no US extradition treaty)

 

[PTK]

In my view, it is indeed amazing tthat a person who mocks US soldiers can get support from those who loudly proclaim their patriotism. It is perhaps like a Conservative in Britain who mocked the late Queen becoming Prime Mnister.

 

[likesfish]

Tbf these people use “born in the USA” and “fortunate son” as patriotic pro republican songs.

Bit like thatcher walking to the Tory conference to billy Bragg or Shipbuilding by Elvia Costello

 

[Serge Forward]

The USA or patriotism?

It's a Samuel Johnson quote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

 

[NoXion]

More that patriotism is inherently selling a story and that that story normally (always?) involves a negative side - at best its always going to have in group and out group thinking isn't it. So I'm questioning the attempt to create a 'better' standard of patriotism against which the Trumpy patriots fail because who's to say their version is wrong?

If the actions of supposed patriots go against the country they claim loyalty to, then the idea that their patriotism is questionable is not just a matter of opinion.

I think it tends to end up down the route where someone like a Keir Starmer will stick the flag all over everything and all the people who really care keep voting for the Tories or UKIP.

But "sticking the flag all over everything" is yet another kind of the same empty performative nonsense. Keith and the Tories are cut from the same cloth, it's just that the Tories are better at pretending that they really care.

 

[gosub]

It's a Samuel Johnson quote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Meaning I think William Pitt the elder is a cunt

 

[hitmouse]

If the actions of supposed patriots go against the country they claim loyalty to, then the idea that their patriotism is questionable is not just a matter of opinion.

What does it mean for your actions to go against your country though? What's the objective definition of that? Off the top of my head, there are people who've given military secrets to the soviets, taken Britain into the European Economic Community and campaigned for it to stay in the EU, publicly leaked secrets about things like the US's drone strike programme, and sabotaged infrastructure connected to the Russian war effort. All those things would be considered by some people to be going against their country. Now, maybe many of the people who've done those things wouldn't give a shit about patriotism and would say they were acting in the spirit of wider international interests, but I'm sure at least a few of them would say that they were acting in their country's best interests and so they have as much right to be called a patriot as anyone else. So I think it is a matter of opinion.

 

[gosub]

What does it mean for your actions to go against your country though? What's the objective definition of that? Off the top of my head, there are people who've given military secrets to the soviets, taken Britain into the European Economic Community and campaigned for it to stay in the EU, publicly leaked secrets about things like the US's drone strike programme, and sabotaged infrastructure connected to the Russian war effort. All those things would be considered by some people to be going against their country. Now, maybe many of the people who've done those things wouldn't give a shit about patriotism and would say they were acting in the spirit of wider international interests, but I'm sure at least a few of them would say that they were acting in their country's best interests and so they have as much right to be called a patriot as anyone else. So I think it is a matter of opinion.

In some of those examples it would be jury's opinion

 

[hitmouse]

In some of those examples it would be jury's opinion

I was going to say "probably in all of them", but then I remembered that you can't actually be prosecuted for treason for having voted Remain.

 

[gosub]

I was going to say "probably in all of them", but then I remembered that you can't actually be prosecuted for treason for having voted Remain.

‘Backstabbing is part of politics’: John Bercow joins US version of The Traitors

Former Commons speaker is one of 21 celebrities competing for cash prize at castle in the Scottish Highlands

www.theguardian.com

 

[T & P]

When the spark that created a country was the destruction of perfectly good tea. US patriotism can't not be slightly misguided

And I see the Americans are at it again!

US scientist recommends adding salt to make perfect cup of tea

The US embassy describes Prof Michelle Francl's suggested tea recipe as an "unthinkable notion".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sue]

It's a Samuel Johnson quote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

The other one I like from RW Emerson on a similar theme is, 'The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.'