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The American mass shooting thread

pbsmooth said:
it seemed to be a 'riposte' to my post. anyway, not really desparate to get into a gun debate just find it so disheartening and depressing.
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what is disheartening and depressing is the way that the same points are made again and again through this thread as though repetition adds strength to their arguments. and where there are barking mad posts imagining situations which will never occur like politicians opposing gun controls losing elections by a landslide on the basis of that issue.

mass shootings are not a condition, they are a symptom. they are a symptom of an unequal society with great anger management issues. there's no way that you can ban your way out of this situation, you can't make things better by making guns harder to get. there is no quick fix for this. it's only by americans changing american society for the better that mass shootings will diminish in quantity. that would take time. seeing that no moves towards gun control were made after sandy hook and only the most cosmetic of changes made after the massacre in las vegas it's really time for gun control proponents to think of another tack rather than inflict more guns are bad duh posts on us.
 
pbsmooth said:
it seemed to be a 'riposte' to my post. anyway, not really desparate to get into a gun debate just find it so disheartening and depressing.
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I think your mistake is assuming anyone on Urban thinks having an arsenal of assault weapons is a good thing. For someone not trying to get into a gun debate, you're trying awfully hard to have one, even if you have to start it with people who mostly agree.
 
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Yuwipi Woman said:
I think your mistake is assuming anyone on Urban thinks having an arsenal of assault weapons is a good thing. For someone not trying to get into a gun debate, you're trying awfully hard to have one, even if you have to start it with people who mostly agree.
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your comment implied if everyone got good safety training it was all OK. I disagree on that.
 
pbsmooth said:
your comment implied if everyone got good safety training it was all OK. I disagree on that.
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Where? Yuwipi Woman's post was:
I grew up with guns and even I'm shocked by that. I started out at 9 or 10 shooting targets in the backyard with BB guns and 22 cal, supervised by my older brother. I don't think I got my first gun until I was 15 or so (A 22 cal Remington with a squirrel on the stock for my birthday). I had access before that, but only with either permission, supervision, or both.
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Can't see any implications other than 'this is how I grew up' ...
 
well it's the last line of what you quoted that suggests kids with guns are fine with supervision. but fair enough, maybe I got the wrong end of the stick.
 
I don't think you can completely separate - having guns around kids is fine if you're safe, with 'oh there seem to be a lot of gun violence in this country'.
 
Pickman's model said:
...where there are barking mad posts imagining situations which will never occur like politicians opposing gun controls losing elections by a landslide on the basis of that issue...
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Considering how big an issue this is becoming over there and how big a majority of the voting population there is across the divide that's in favour of controls and in light of the preponderance of evidence from the prior assault weapons ban which demonstrates the lower incidence of deadly mass shootings, this becoming a big electoral issue is not a 'barking mad' concept.

There's a lot of general talk about the 2024 election being potentially fought on abortion issues and sensible gun controls and that the republican party at present is very much on the losing side of both of these. Only the other day the Tennessee governor, who was flatly opposed to any control measures, is now pushing for his statehouse to look into introducing red flag laws due to political pressure and he's not the only one eyeing his political future in this context.

Maybe when I posted I should have said the 'anything goes gun culture' but I thought you would have picked up on that nuance without the need for me to be blatantly specific about it...
 
Nylock said:
Considering how big an issue this is becoming over there and how big a majority of the voting population there is across the divide that's in favour of controls and in light of the preponderance of evidence from the prior assault weapons ban which demonstrates the lower incidence of deadly mass shootings, this becoming a big electoral issue is not a 'barking mad' concept.

There's a lot of general talk about the 2024 election being potentially fought on abortion issues and sensible gun controls and that the republican party at present is very much on the losing side of both of these. Only the other day the Tennessee governor, who was flatly opposed to any control measures, is now pushing for his statehouse to look into introducing red flag laws due to political pressure and he's not the only one eyeing his political future in this context.

Maybe when I posted I should have said the 'anything goes gun culture' but I thought you would have picked up on that nuance without the need for me to be blatantly specific about it...
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If you hadn't noticed it's a very very long time since there was a landslide election result in the presidential votes. And I daresay it'll be a long time until your hopes of a landslide result on this issue appear. Strange how you're so long on bluster on this point and so very short on actual evidence - you know, actual election results rather than the fear of election results
 
Nylock said:
Considering how big an issue this is becoming over there and how big a majority of the voting population there is across the divide that's in favour of controls and in light of the preponderance of evidence from the prior assault weapons ban which demonstrates the lower incidence of deadly mass shootings, this becoming a big electoral issue is not a 'barking mad' concept.

There's a lot of general talk about the 2024 election being potentially fought on abortion issues and sensible gun controls and that the republican party at present is very much on the losing side of both of these. Only the other day the Tennessee governor, who was flatly opposed to any control measures, is now pushing for his statehouse to look into introducing red flag laws due to political pressure and he's not the only one eyeing his political future in this context.

Maybe when I posted I should have said the 'anything goes gun culture' but I thought you would have picked up on that nuance without the need for me to be blatantly specific about it...
Click to expand...

As the Boomers age and Gen X and Y become more politically engaged, the gun situation will change.* Their views are entirely different from older Americans and most of them hate the Republicans. Look for the entire political landscape of the US to change over the next two decades.

* it's almost as if getting shot at in your school changes you outlook, or something.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
As the Boomers age and Gen X and Y become more politically engaged, the gun situation will change.* Their views are entirely different from older Americans and most of them hate the Republicans. Look for the entire political landscape of the US to change over the next two decades.

* it's almost as if getting shot at in your school changes you outlook, or something.
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You'd certainly hope so. But if there's one thing American elections aren't, it's free and fair, either in terms of voting districts, voter suppression or candidate spending. So I'm far from confident things will change as you suggest
 
pbsmooth said:
Don't ring the wrong doorbell by accident!

Ralph Yarl: Black teen shot by homeowner after ringing wrong doorbell Ralph Yarl: Black teen shot by homeowner after ringing wrong doorbell
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FOR FUCK'S SAKE

Investigators are looking into whether or not the suspect is protected by the state's Stand-Your-Ground laws, which grant people permission to use deadly force if they feel seriously in danger. Critics say such laws facilitate violence against black people.
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Pickman's model said:
mass shootings are not a condition, they are a symptom. they are a symptom of an unequal society with great anger management issues. there's no way that you can ban your way out of this situation, you can't make things better by making guns harder to get.
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Of course you can. Obviously this won't end mindless violence, because you have the same people with anger management issues, but if fewer of them can get hold of guns, they will do less damage. It's generally only Americans who fail to get this rather obvious point.
 
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Pickman's model said:
what is disheartening and depressing is the way that the same points are made again and again through this thread as though repetition adds strength to their arguments. and where there are barking mad posts imagining situations which will never occur like politicians opposing gun controls losing elections by a landslide on the basis of that issue.

mass shootings are not a condition, they are a symptom. they are a symptom of an unequal society with great anger management issues. there's no way that you can ban your way out of this situation, you can't make things better by making guns harder to get. there is no quick fix for this. it's only by americans changing american society for the better that mass shootings will diminish in quantity. that would take time. seeing that no moves towards gun control were made after sandy hook and only the most cosmetic of changes made after the massacre in las vegas it's really time for gun control proponents to think of another tack rather than inflict more guns are bad duh posts on us.
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hmm mass shoots in australia and the united kingdom are fair less common when people who have anger management issue or might just be crazy cannot buy a gun at the local tescos

withstanding that you can still get guns if you want to but most people with a grudge or a moment of madness will not have one ready to hand
 
I can understand the argument the gun control won't take them out the hands of criminals, but it might make it harder for the average spree shooter.

I can also understand in a country with so many guns, why people might not want to give theirs up.
 
Pickman's model said:
what is disheartening and depressing is the way that the same points are made again and again through this thread as though repetition adds strength to their arguments. and where there are barking mad posts imagining situations which will never occur like politicians opposing gun controls losing elections by a landslide on the basis of that issue.

mass shootings are not a condition, they are a symptom. they are a symptom of an unequal society with great anger management issues. there's no way that you can ban your way out of this situation, you can't make things better by making guns harder to get. there is no quick fix for this. it's only by americans changing american society for the better that mass shootings will diminish in quantity. that would take time. seeing that no moves towards gun control were made after sandy hook and only the most cosmetic of changes made after the massacre in las vegas it's really time for gun control proponents to think of another tack rather than inflict more guns are bad duh posts on us.
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Dunno dude,
We all got anger management issues, but we don't have the means to carry them out.
Someone cuts me up in concealed carry Texas and I call him a dickless twat won't end up the same way it'd end up in Stokey high st. In a relatively sane country at the worst I'd get à slap, if not just laughed, at instead of becoming part of a thrice weekly stastitic
 
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their is a police video from the states that was just released of police milling around someone's house in the middle of the night without identifying themselves

they walk out with a gun and get blow away by 4 officers and then the police get into a shoot out with the wife without screaming police police


guessing the dead guy or his wife won't be allowed to claim "standing your ground" laws in court
 
Pickman's model said:
If you hadn't noticed it's a very very long time since there was a landslide election result in the presidential votes. And I daresay it'll be a long time until your hopes of a landslide result on this issue appear. Strange how you're so long on bluster on this point and so very short on actual evidence - you know, actual election results rather than the fear of election results
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Show me where I mentioned presidential votes. Show me where I mentioned any federal-level official/politician. Most of this stuff is going to start at the state and local level because fuck-all can get done at the national. The recent dismal showing for hard-right candidates in the midterms and recent electoral spankings of various hard-right candidates at key statewide positions does indicate a shift. Yes, it'll take a while, you only have to look at the near 50-year campaign to overturn Roe to see that. However, unlike Roe, the republicans have kind of painted themselves into a corner by their insistence on the supremacy of 'states rights' over federal legislation. The introduction of sensible gun legislation/age limits/assault rifles bans may take 50 years or it may happen a lot sooner.

Notice the polite and non passive-aggressive manner of enagement here. Give it a go yourself.
 
ouirdeaux said:
Of course you can. Obviously this won't end mindless violence, because you have the same people with anger management issues, but if fewer of them can get hold of guns, they will do less damage. It's generally only Americans who fail to get this rather obvious point.
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I've got to admire your optimism, if not your political nous, if you think a ban is at all possible in a country which refused meaningful background checks after sandy hook
 
Nylock said:
Show me where I mentioned presidential votes. Show me where I mentioned any federal-level official/politician. Most of this stuff is going to start at the state and local level because fuck-all can get done at the national. The recent dismal showing for hard-right candidates in the midterms and recent electoral spankings of various hard-right candidates at key statewide positions does indicate a shift. Yes, it'll take a while, you only have to look at the near 50-year campaign to overturn Roe to see that. However, unlike Roe, the republicans have kind of painted themselves into a corner by their insistence on the supremacy of 'states rights' over federal legislation. The introduction of sensible gun legislation/age limits/assault rifles bans may take 50 years or it may happen a lot sooner.

Notice the polite and non passive-aggressive manner of enagement here. Give it a go yourself.
Click to expand...
Post 4959. Do you read your posts or just look at the pretty words on the screen?
 
Pickman's model said:
I've got to admire your optimism, if not your political nous, if you think a ban is at all possible in a country which refused meaningful background checks after sandy hook
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You'll never see a total ban, but I can see a ban on high-capacity clips and assault weapons. Shotguns, handguns, and long rifles are here to stay. If you look at when gun deaths really went up, it was when the Reagan-era ban on the sale of assault weapons expired.
 
Nylock said:
I do, pardon me for replying in kind after my post being described as 'barking mad'. Nice edit btw.
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Then I am surprised you didn't notice mentioning the presidential election of 2024. Your posts seem motivated by the notion that gun control is going to swing things, that there's some er moral majority who want to see greater gun control and will vote in droves for candidates espousing such a position. But the broadly 50/50/50 nature of presidential elections not to mention the senate will stymie many meaningful gun control laws before they can get on the statute books. Maybe some measures will be taken at a state or city level. That's hardly going to affect the many millions of guns already in circulation, and I expect many proposals will be much heralded but do very little if anything in practice.
 
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