do you feel that way about soldiers who lose their nerve in the face of a likely violent death?
The American mass shooting thread
- Thread starter Yuwipi Woman
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Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Yes.
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
Here is a compliation of some of the suggestions that have been put forth on Fox news by rightwing talking heads, fuckwit politicians, clueless law enforcement vets and gun rights apologists in the wake of the shooting. If you don't want to watch the whole thing, as the youtuber provides running commentary, fast forward to 13:30 for the full list of tawdry batshittery. Fucked up.
E2A: A lot of the talking points are utterly redundant (i.e. "Make attacking a school a death sentence" -fucking DUH, it already is!) but the majority of those highlighted are just fucking psychotic
E2A: A lot of the talking points are utterly redundant (i.e. "Make attacking a school a death sentence" -fucking DUH, it already is!) but the majority of those highlighted are just fucking psychotic
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story
Changing the facts
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
That too
Did you ever find yourself going up against psychopathic killers firing automatic weapons at you in your time in the army?
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
so what ww1 style around the back of the Barack bullet in the head
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, it isn't.
let's look at what cops in the uk swear:
nothing there about putting yourself in harm's way
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so you (don't) say. but we all know that the cops not only don't prevent offences against people, but even once apprised of an offence are amazingly reluctant to investigate - the recent partygate scandal for example, when it took a great effort by very many people to get the met into looking at things which had happened in the past. offences from phone or cycle theft to mugging, burglary and up the scale to rape are at best fitfully investigated - and if you'd listened to the toady programme yesterday you'd have heard about these stories Woman tracks down her own stolen car before a police investigation.
but leaving that to one side and returning to the police in america you might enjoy this article about why their cops aren't obligated to act in the interests of citizens Police Have No Duty to Protect the Public
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Your objection was with chandlerp's perfectly sensible statement proferred as a "should". Examples of police being shit have no bearing.
As for your second link - pretty scary. States maybe have some discretion with this (the case refers to whether a duty to protect is enshrined in the Fourteenth Amendment - this is because US police officers specifically swear to uphold the Constitution), but I don't know whether any State legislatures have implemented it. It might be they don't even have the power to do so.
This is a point regularly brought up by people who want to arm themselves - the State is not obligated to provide protection, so it only makes sense to provide their own.
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SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Hey, I got nearly two hours of safeguarding training I'll have you know.
Next year I get the same two hours again
There is one school I've worked at where they do whole-school 'lockdown drill' and they have posters in every room telling everyone what to do in a mad bastard with gun/knife/bomb type situation. Every classroom has a door with a tall, narrow window in it, and next to each of these windows is a big sheet of paper to cover it with in the event of a lockdown. One kid pointed out to me that this just meant that the maniac(s) would know exactly which rooms had people in, because they'd be the ones with the windows covered.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Protect others, he said. Being too scared to slaughter others is actually a good thing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That second link exemplifies many of the problems of a purely rights-based system. The reasoning here is 'We didn't create the problem, we merely failed to prevent it, therefore we are not responsible'.
Rights on their own count for very, very little.
At least the UK oath covers that kind of thing, although good luck suing coppers in the UK when they're negligent.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Hard to find negligence cases of the "police standing by and doing nothing" in the UK, certainly they have a lot of protection for other kinds of cases.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Firing automatic weapons, dropping bombs etc, yep. And during that time I was unarmed.
It's what soldiers do.
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You fought someone with an automatic weapon while unarmed and are still here? Are you John McClane or something?
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Keep your eye on that kid...
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
No.
There is a profound difference between what we now call PTSD, and an act of cowardice that puts your comrades at risk.
A discussion for another thread perhaps, but I don't think that anyone could say how you would handle the WWI trenches. Those shot have been pardoned
, much good that it will do them. Nowadays, indeed, by the time of WWII where it was called battle fatigue, there was a much greater understanding of the effects of prolonged combat.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
No, I was a medic who was at times treating the comrades of those who were trying to kill me. Believe me, being a sitting duck in an operating theatre in an old mutton plant, whilst things are coming through the roof is not pleasant.
My experience, although intense, was of short duration, thankfully.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I would think that 'prevent all offences against people' covers that.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
My understanding is that some of the parents on the scene wanted to do exactly this. (Maybe they were themselves armed - quite possibly, this being Texas.)
Of course none of us can know how we will react to a particular situation until we are there. But it's not a good look to be a trained, armed group who are not only not doing anything but are stopping others who are not trained from doing anything.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Not necessarily stopping people trained in anything other than basic gun safety and marksmanship. But your point holds regardless.
We're talking about going toe-to-toe with a machine gun wielding psychopath here though - while I'm sure your experiences as an army medic were dangerous and frightening, it strikes me that the psychological pressures in play are probably a bit different.
I'm fairly sure I'd fuck it right up tbh
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Thing is, this is supposed to be the whole point of training - to give you a better chance of not fucking it right up.
While I do partially agree with you here, I also think those parents and everyone else who lives in that town are entitled to ask of their trained police 'what's the fucking point of you?' Ignoring questions of individuals, collectively they fucked it right up despite their training.
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