The 2024 UK General Election - news, speculation and updates

[moochedit]

Related to this and Reform putting up candidates, I do wonder what would happen if Westminster parties conclude that £500 (set at level in 1987) is now 'too affordable '. Could it be ramped up? £1,250? Higher?

Or maybe they'll just link it to inflation.

 

[PR1Berske]

Or maybe they'll just link it to inflation.

£500 then is £1,762 today according to one website

 

[moochedit]

£500 then is £1,762 today according to one website

There probably should be another option of paying no deposit but you have to collect a lot more signatures instead.

 

[moochedit]

£500 then is £1,762 today according to one website

They could just link it to inflation from now onwards but they could also decide to "back date" it like that. Think it was £150 before the 80s but no idea how long it was that rate.

 

[Silas Loom]

There probably should be another option of paying no deposit but you have to collect a lot more signatures instead.

That should go up anyway. 500 for constituencies, 100 for wards.

 

[kebabking]

I'd like to see a re-jig - keep the £500 deposit, but you also need sigs from 500 constituents to stand, but in return you get funding for leaflets.

Kind of toying with the idea of cash payments to constituents to attend hustings as well....

Democracy is prescious, I think we should spend rather more on keeping it in good health.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think this illustrates the political reality and the direction its pushing

Labour set to land billions in new investment from banks and international firms within months, as part of a plan to use private finance to rebuild Britain that it hopes will avoid a need for sweeping tax rises​

• Would-be chancellor Reeves has wooed investors for months
• Spending power hemmed in by shallow growth, tax pledges

"The plans hark back to the last Labour government in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, private finance initiatives and public-private partnerships were expanded. They’ve since come in for criticism due to questions over their value-for-money, the quality of privately-delivered projects and arrangements used to keep debt off the government’s balance sheet."

https://archive.ph/jUJBR#selection-2173.0-2173.395

Yep. It's Blair mark 2. And as with Mark 1, the net result is a more unequal society.

 

[ska invita]

I think this illustrates the political reality and the direction its pushing

Labour set to land billions in new investment from banks and international firms within months, as part of a plan to use private finance to rebuild Britain that it hopes will avoid a need for sweeping tax rises​

• Would-be chancellor Reeves has wooed investors for months
• Spending power hemmed in by shallow growth, tax pledges

"The plans hark back to the last Labour government in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, private finance initiatives and public-private partnerships were expanded. They’ve since come in for criticism due to questions over their value-for-money, the quality of privately-delivered projects and arrangements used to keep debt off the government’s balance sheet."

https://archive.ph/jUJBR#selection-2173.0-2173.395

100% this, its going to be PFI on steroids. Not a single lesson learned from the past.
Tories and New Labour can only repeat their exhausted methods because its literally all they've got...its what they believe in......ideologically driven and ideologically bankrupt....

 

[Spandex]

I think this illustrates the political reality and the direction its pushing

Labour set to land billions in new investment from banks and international firms within months, as part of a plan to use private finance to rebuild Britain that it hopes will avoid a need for sweeping tax rises​

• Would-be chancellor Reeves has wooed investors for months
• Spending power hemmed in by shallow growth, tax pledges

"The plans hark back to the last Labour government in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, private finance initiatives and public-private partnerships were expanded. They’ve since come in for criticism due to questions over their value-for-money, the quality of privately-delivered projects and arrangements used to keep debt off the government’s balance sheet."

https://archive.ph/jUJBR#selection-2173.0-2173.395

I don't think that's the political reality Kaka Tim is talking about.

Starmer's Labour are clearly a lost cause for putting any hope in: packed with corporate lobbyists standing as MPs, corporate funding way outstripping Union funding, Rachel "tougher than the Torys on Benefits" Reeves likely to be Chancellor, Wes "help from the private sector" Streeting probable Health Secretary. They're going to look for neo-liberal how can the private sector profit from this? solutions to everything that comes their way.

But there's another political reality that 14 years of Tory austerity has helped create, summed up by that phrase you're as likely to hear from the BBC watching, Times reading, Mountain Warehouse wearing, former Tory voting soft right as you are from anyone on the left: "nothing works". Pick any part of the public sector - schools, colleges, universities, social care, doctors, hospitals, mental health, councils, on and on - and its the same story: lack of funding has led to an underpaid, overworked workforce who are either doing their best or throwing their hands up and walking away as the service they provide publicly crumbles before everyone's eyes. Most people have given up on the Tories doing anything about it, which is part of the reason for their collapse, but if Labour don't do something about it their poll lead will go up in smoke long before the next election. It's the same issue that makes immigration such a simplistic catch all answer for Reform voters, as they blame crumbling public services on 'too many people' rather than anything as obvious as wealth being transferred to the rich rather than shared around the country. Its a political reality that will just sit there festering unless its tackled and while there's every chance Starmer's Labour will bury their heads in private sector corporate arse and the country will continue to fall apart, it's a political reality that will be there pulling on the incoming government.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think that's the political reality Kaka Tim is talking about.

Starmer's Labour are clearly a lost cause for putting any hope in: packed with corporate lobbyists standing as MPs, corporate funding way outstripping Union funding, Rachel "tougher than the Torys on Benefits" Reeves likely to be Chancellor, Wes "help from the private sector" Streeting probable Health Secretary. They're going to look for neo-liberal how can the private sector profit from this? solutions to everything that comes their way.

But there's another political reality that 14 years of Tory austerity has helped create, summed up by that phrase you're as likely to hear from the BBC watching, Times reading, Mountain Warehouse wearing, former Tory voting soft right as you are from anyone on the left: "nothing works". Pick any part of the public sector - schools, colleges, universities, social care, doctors, hospitals, mental health, councils, on and on - and its the same story: lack of funding has led to an underpaid, overworked workforce who are either doing their best or throwing their hands up and walking away as the service they provide publicly crumbles before everyone's eyes. Most people have given up on the Tories doing anything about it, which is part of the reason for their collapse, but if Labour don't do something about it their poll lead will go up in smoke long before the next election. It's the same issue that makes immigration such a simplistic catch all answer for Reform voters, as they blame crumbling public services on 'too many people' rather than anything as obvious as wealth being transferred to the rich rather than shared around the country. Its a political reality that will just sit there festering unless its tackled and while there's every chance Starmer's Labour will bury their heads in private sector corporate arse and the country will continue to fall apart, it's a political reality that will be there pulling on the incoming government.

The labour party put lack of principle before country

 

[cupid_stunt]

Related to this and Reform putting up candidates, I do wonder what would happen if Westminster parties conclude that £500 (set at level in 1987) is now 'too affordable '. Could it be ramped up? £1,250? Higher?

£500 then is £1,762 today according to one website

According to the Bank of England inflation calculator it's £1.402.

 

[ska invita]

Its a political reality that will just sit there festering unless its tackled and while there's every chance Starmer's Labour will bury their heads in private sector corporate arse and the country will continue to fall apart, it's a political reality that will be there pulling on the incoming government.

Thing about PFI investment is that its short term gain for long term pain...Its like going to a loan shark
It does however allow for a honeymoon period and it will allow short term investment towards "tackling" the rot....the problems (of over the odds cost and shoddy standards) only really kick in down the line

 

[two sheds]

was talking to my sis the other night and she said she doesn't think the tories will be wiped out - more that tory voters are keeping quiet but will as usual carefully consider the issues that affect their own personal interests and come out and vote tory again.

I did fleetingly see a story that canvassers are saying something similar. Perhaps enough tories will peel off to Reform to screw them but I think she has a point (although I sincerely hope not).

 

[zedr]

Thing about PFI investment is that its short term gain for long term pain...Its like going to a loan shark
It does however allow for a honeymoon period and it will allow short term investment towards "tackling" the rot....the problems (of over the odds cost and shoddy standards) only really kick in down the line

its this which makes me feel very bleak about the election. infrastructure is fucked and all starmer, streeting and reeves want to do about it is PFI their way out of it, which will just lead to another electoral swing to the tories//whatever the new vehicle of the far right is in the next election or two. labour are just laying the groundwork for them.

 

[kabbes]

was talking to my sis the other night and she said she doesn't think the tories will be wiped out - more that tory voters are keeping quiet but will as usual carefully consider the issues that affect their own personal interests and come out and vote tory again.

I did fleetingly see a story that canvassers are saying something similar. Perhaps enough tories will peel off to Reform to screw them but I think she has a point (although I sincerely hope not).

The difference this time is that very few voters believe that the Tories will help their own personal interests. Who is it that the Tories appeal to in these terms that the other parties do not? Maybe those with kids in private schools — a very small percentage of the overall population. But otherwise?

I wouldn’t underestimate just how much the Tories have already damaged the personal interests of the middle class.

 

[cupid_stunt]

was talking to my sis the other night and she said she doesn't think the tories will be wiped out - more that tory voters are keeping quiet but will as usual carefully consider the issues that affect their own personal interests and come out and vote tory again.

I did fleetingly see a story that canvassers are saying something similar. Perhaps enough tories will peel off to Reform to screw them but I think she has a point (although I sincerely hope not).

The ye olde 'shy Tories', that have been a problem for the polling companies before, they have learnt that lesson and make adjustments to reflect it, I doubt there will be much different to the final outcome compared to the current predications of the polling companies with a decent track record.

It's going to be a Labour landslide, out doing the 1997 one, just a case of by how much.

 

[two sheds]

The difference this time is that very few voters believe that the Tories will help their own personal interests. Who is it that the Tories appeal to in these terms that the other parties do not? Maybe those with kids in private schools — a very small percentage of the overall population. But otherwise?

Unless they're listening to tory claims about labour's tax. They're not the most rational of voters

I'm sure you're right but I'm just preparing myself in case there's a huge disappointment on the night.

 

[Karl Masks]

PR advice for Misogynistic Scumbags Who Get Caught Out seems to have changed. Used to be 'it was just bantz', which has now evolved into this from this particular Misogynistic Scumbag:

He seems absolutely vile. Supporting Tate. Clearly him and his mates are part of a hideous subculture. No wonder Farage gets such easy traction with his own brand of hatred

 

[kabbes]

Unless they're listening to tory claims about labour's tax. They're not the most rational of voters

I'm sure you're right but I'm just preparing myself in case there's a huge disappointment on the night.

Surely your whole fear is that they are the most rational of voters? Homo economicus. And as rational voters, they know that the current Tory ideology has cost them a lot.

 

[ska invita]

its this which makes me feel very bleak about the election. infrastructure is fucked and all starmer, streeting and reeves want to do about it is PFI their way out of it, which will just lead to another electoral swing to the tories//whatever the new vehicle of the far right is in the next election or two. labour are just laying the groundwork for them.

yeah we look to be in a death spiral, two failed political ideas repeating themselves dialectically (hah! hope ive used that word correctly!) and creating ever greater decline....
the only silver lining for me at this point is that just maybe something fundamental might have broken within the Tory party machine, and also the fact that environmental crises might force more fundamental change ...too late of course, but still. 2024 is not 1997 and the stakes are going to get higher .....
Oh and of course at least Labour will kick out the bangladeshis.

 

[tim]

.

Or maybe they'll just link it to inflation.

Triple lock it.

 

[The39thStep]

yeah we look to be in a death spiral, two failed political ideas repeating themselves dialectically (hah! hope ive used that word correctly!) and creating ever greater decline....
the only silver lining for me at this point is that just maybe something fundamental might have broken within the Tory party machine, and also the fact that environmental crises might force more fundamental change ...too late of course, but still. 2024 is not 1997 and the stakes are going to get higher .....
Oh and of course at least Labour will kick out the bangladeshis.

depends if you are attempting to use the concept of dialectics in the Hegelian or Marxist sense

 

[planetgeli]

Edit. Old odds.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Ronnie O'Sullivan supports Faiza Shaheen, fair play:

Indeed: and not just a one off, he is out canvassing with her this afternoon. I soooooo want Faiza to win!

 

[planetgeli]

Edit. Old odds.

It's not straight-forward on a general google search right now because if you put 'Conservatives' and 'betting odds' into a search, well, you'll never believe what comes up.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's not straight-forward on a general google search right now because if you put 'Conservatives' and 'betting odds' into a search, well, you'll never believe what comes up.

Err, conservatives betting odds, brings up betting sites with odds, which is all I would expect, TBH.

 

[planetgeli]

Err, conservatives betting odds, brings up betting sites with odds, which is all I would expect, TBH.

You don't really do jokes do you.

 

[cupid_stunt]

You don't really do jokes do you.

Not when they are not funny.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Tory deputy chair dismissed sewage crisis as ‘political football’

Angela Richardson accuses campaigners against polluted water of putting Conservative MPs in danger

www.theguardian.com

Tory deputy chair dismissed sewage crisis as ‘political football’​

Angela Richardson accuses campaigners against polluted water of putting Conservative MPs in danger

Andrew Kersley
Sat 29 Jun 2024 10.00 BST


The Conservative party deputy chair Angela Richardson called the sewage crisis a “political football” and claimed opposition parties and activists had put Tory MPs in physical danger by campaigning on the issue.
Richardson, who is standing for re-election in Guildford, where the River Wey was recently found to have 10 times the safe limit of E coli, also suggested the only reason people were talking about the problem was “because the Conservatives let everyone know it was happening”.

At this point I'm starting to think we need to merge the "Incompetent Tory" thread and this one.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Tory deputy chair dismissed sewage crisis as ‘political football’

Angela Richardson accuses campaigners against polluted water of putting Conservative MPs in danger

www.theguardian.com

At this point I'm starting to think we need to merge the "Incompetent Tory" thread and this one.

What a dumb thing to come out with, well that's a few more votes lost to them, from down here on the coast, where it's a major issue, considering more than double the amount of sewage was released in the sea and our local rivers last year, compared to 2022.