The 2019 General Election

[alex_]

Green party suggests investment in environmental issues shocker.

And no, it wouldn't mean you'd get a free electric van. Hth.

Pretty sure it’s 100 billion a year and to spend half a trillion in 5 years - I think you might get two electric vans

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Pretty sure it’s 100 billion a year and to spend half a trillion in 5 years - I think you might get two electric vans

So a similar amount to the quantitative easing done in response to the banking crisis. Climate crisis not so important really.

 

[ska invita]

IIRC
Greens have said an extra 100 billion a year
Torys have said an extra 20 billion a year
Labour have said 55 billion a year (+ an extra 400 billion over the next ten years earmarked on green and social projects)

ETA: How much has each party pledged to spend if they win the election?
+ This must be the climate election - Greens

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Be interested to hear alternative ways to tackle the climate emergency. Ways that don't involve investment.

 

[8ball]

Be interested to hear alternative ways to tackle the climate emergency. Ways that don't involve investment.

Mass suicide?

 

[brogdale]

Just waiting for him to pull on the string-backs and crank up the Roachford...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Mass suicide?

Some would say that this would appear to be the current most-favoured solution.

I'm going to be charitable and take Marty1's post as a dryly satirical poke at the idea that we can create collective solutions to problems such as the climate emergency through the electoral systems of liberal democracies, geared as they are to appeal to short-term 'freebies' presented as benefits at an individual level, feeding the rampant atomised consumerism that led us here in the first place and beyond which it is simply not possible to appeal.

 

[andysays]

There are probably worse ways to spend £X billion than incentives for a mass switching from diesel to electric vehicles over the next few years, TBH

 

[Supine]

There are probably worse ways to spend £X billion than incentives for a mass switching from diesel to electric vehicles over the next few years, TBH

certainly better than cruise missiles

 

[brogdale]

certainly better than cruise missiles

Yes, can't be long before we get to the bit of the tory/media grid where we hear how the man who hates Britain would never press the button. Maybe that's next week?

 

[andysays]

Yes, can't be long before we get to the bit of the tory/media grid where we hear how the man who hates Britain would never press the button. Maybe that's next week?

I expect they're saving their trump card for when it will really count

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah well, I'm against borrowing. I think everyone should be saving. If nobody borrowed and everybody saved, we could all live off the interest. Sorted.

 

[brogdale]

I expect they're saving their trump card for when it will really count

The convergence tactic, eh?

 

[brogdale]

Do we reckon we know the hierarchy of negative attack lines?
Is the nuke button/pacifism at the top?
Presumably the loving the jew killing beardy terrorists is a bit further down...being how that's all a bit remote for workingclasstownman?
Then there's the up the RA stuff.
Hmmm so much to look forward to.

 

[butchersapron]

Some would say that this would appear to be the current most-favoured solution.

I'm going to be charitable and take Marty1's post as a dryly satirical poke at the idea that we can create collective solutions to problems such as the climate emergency through the electoral systems of liberal democracies, geared as they are to appeal to short-term 'freebies' presented as benefits at an individual level, feeding the rampant atomised consumerism that led us here in the first place and beyond which it is simply not possible to appeal.

He doesn't think there's a climate emergency at all.

 

[MickiQ]

Be interested to hear alternative ways to tackle the climate emergency. Ways that don't involve investment.

There are really only 3 ways to tackle climate change

1.Sufficient technological/scientific Progress.
2.Going back to a simpler lifestyle abandoning such things as modern tranport and agricultural methods.
3. Doing nothing and letting Nature take care of the problem (as it ultimately will)

The problem with the first one is that it will take massive investment in both capital and political will, so there is reluctance to do it
The problem with the second one is that there are now simply too many of us to be able to feed and support if we do that so human numbers will need to fall drastically and there is natural reluctance to be one of the numbers reduced.
The problem with the third is that Mother Nature truly doesn't give a shit about mankinds dreams and ambitions. The Earth and Life itself will survive climate change(it has done before and will do again) the question is will we.
I suspect in the longer run that ever increasing evidence of solution 3 will focus minds more on a combination of solutions 1 and 2.

But investment in fighting climate change is a good thing in and of itself, scientific progress, clean air, clean water and skilled good quality jobs are definitely nice to haves.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are really only 3 ways to tackle climate change

1.Sufficient technological/scientific Progress.
2.Going back to a simpler lifestyle abandoning such things as modern tranport and agricultural methods.
3. Doing nothing and letting Nature take care of the problem (as it ultimately will)

The problem with the first one is that it will take massive investment in both capital and political will, so there is reluctance to do it
The problem with the second one is that there are now simply too many of us to be able to feed and support if we do that so human numbers will need to fall drastically and there is natural reluctance to be one of the numbers reduced.
The problem with the third is that Mother Nature truly doesn't give a shit about mankinds dreams and ambitions. The Earth and Life itself will survive climate change(it has done before and will do again) the question is will we.
I suspect in the longer run that ever increasing evidence of solution 3 will focus minds more on a combination of solutions 1 and 2.

But investment in fighting climate change is a good thing in and of itself, scientific progress, clean air, clean water and skilled good quality jobs are definitely nice to haves.

Yeah, what is needed is ambition. Is £100 billion a year (just under 5% UK GDP) enough? It would be a start at least.

At its peak, the Apollo space programme was employing nearly half a million people. They were engaged in a project with no immediate payoff beyond the glory of putting someone on the Moon. A climate emergency programme many times the size of the Apollo programme would have just about the biggest payoff imaginable. Madness not to do it.

 

[not-bono-ever]

If we have to assume that the climate emergency has it roots in the capitalist model ( yeah I know) then there will be a cost involved in making changes to the climate issue- glibly , digging shit up to them set fire to still forms the basis of this model cos it’s cheap.

 

[Pickman's model]

If we have to assume that the climate emergency has it roots in the capitalist model ( yeah I know) then there will be a cost involved in making changes to the climate issue- glibly , digging shit up to them set fire to still forms the basis of this model cos it’s cheap.

it's not cheap and that's what's being realised. not universally, and not as fast as may be desired, but the burning a leads to expense b is percolating through people's consciousness.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Ok , Not as cheap as it was then- the dig it and burn it mindset is still king.it cannot end well .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If we have to assume that the climate emergency has it roots in the capitalist model ( yeah I know) then there will be a cost involved in making changes to the climate issue- glibly , digging shit up to them set fire to still forms the basis of this model cos it’s cheap.

Yes and no. Renewables like solar are starting to outperform the likes of coal now in terms of cost per unit of energy. But I agree with your basic point - we need to change our habits whether or not there is a cost, and to pay whatever that cost is. If only it were as simple as spending 5% GDP on the problem and thus solving it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok , Not as cheap as it was then- the dig it and burn it mindset is still king.it cannot end well .

it will end very badly

 

[SpackleFrog]

And putting them off with the bonkers "revoke" stance.

*shrug* Its no more bonkers than telling people to vote again until they get the answer right. And I suspect that this 'never mind the proles just cancel the bloody thing' stance is actually fairly attractive to Tory voters in the South who live in 70% Remain constituencies and can't understand why this is happening anyway.

 

[8ball]

*shrug* Its no more bonkers than telling people to vote again until they get the answer right.

Fucking ludicrous innit. We only had a general election two years ago.
Take a look at what was happening before that - they've been having them every few years, and this goes back a couple of centuries.

They just won't respect the will of the people!

 

[Artaxerxes]

Be interested to hear alternative ways to tackle the climate emergency. Ways that don't involve investment.

If we scrap trident by firing nukes at random countries then carbon emissions will go right down and the ensuing nuclear winter will cool the planet down enough for wildlife to start to recover

 

[treelover]

Lots of bluster from all parties, Sharmi Chakrabarti and then Faiza Shaheen just couldn't say what labour's immigration policy would be, it seems they are being cautious before the vote as they don't want to lose an element of their vote.

 

[Wilf]

Do we reckon we know the hierarchy of negative attack lines?
Is the nuke button/pacifism at the top?
Presumably the loving the jew killing beardy terrorists is a bit further down...being how that's all a bit remote for workingclasstownman?
Then there's the up the RA stuff.
Hmmm so much to look forward to.

Also, allowing weeds to flourish on his allotment. Metaphor for what Corbyn's Britain would be like. Contrast to 'boris' and his lusty up and at em positivity etc.

 

[ska invita]

At its peak, the Apollo space programme was employing nearly half a million people. They were engaged in a project with no immediate payoff beyond the glory of putting someone on the Moon. A climate emergency programme many times the size of the Apollo programme would have just about the biggest payoff imaginable. Madness not to do it.

One Million Climate Jobs
https://www.campaigncc.org/sites/data/files/Docs/one_million_climate_jobs_2014.pdf

"The One Million Climate Jobs report produced by the Campaign against Climate Change Trade Union group and backed by eight national unions shows that, for a relatively small amount, we can tackle all these problems. We can create a million secure Government jobs in renewable energy, in increasing energy efficiency by insulating homes and public buildings free of charge, in hugely expanding cheap public transport to get people and freight onto cleaner forms of transit, and in developing the "green skills" that we need through education and training.

A million decently paid Government jobs, and the spin-off of half a million additional jobs that this would create, could kick-start the economy. It is the alternative both to austerity and to Government inaction as the world slides towards climate catastrophe."

...thats 5 years old now but i think still influential on labours green deal (are details of that yet published?)

 

[WouldBe]

Be interested to hear alternative ways to tackle the climate emergency. Ways that don't involve investment.

Plant more trees. Ideal time of year for collecting seeds.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One Million Climate Jobs
https://www.campaigncc.org/sites/data/files/Docs/one_million_climate_jobs_2014.pdf

"The One Million Climate Jobs report produced by the Campaign against Climate Change Trade Union group and backed by eight national unions shows that, for a relatively small amount, we can tackle all these problems. We can create a million secure Government jobs in renewable energy, in increasing energy efficiency by insulating homes and public buildings free of charge, in hugely expanding cheap public transport to get people and freight onto cleaner forms of transit, and in developing the "green skills" that we need through education and training.

A million decently paid Government jobs, and the spin-off of half a million additional jobs that this would create, could kick-start the economy. It is the alternative both to austerity and to Government inaction as the world slides towards climate catastrophe."

...thats 5 years old now but i think still influential on labours green deal (are details of that yet published?)

imo Labour needs to get on the case with it's Green New Deal asap. This could and should be its one big idea for this election. Big, bold, ambitious, joined-up thinking, and of course necessary.