The 2019 General Election

[Pickman's model]

I was speaking to a work mate this morning - he voted Labour (In Brent) liked Corbyn, wanted Labour to win, but wasn't surprised they didn't. He said Labour had too many policies He said he was only interested in having a home, earning a living, and having a NHS, he wasn't interested in having free broadband or any of the other things they had in the manifesto. I think he had a point - the simple Tory message was easy to understand - Labour overthought - had too many strategists/media experts and they got found out.

yeh there were too many policies, trotted out before previous policies had really settled in people's minds. this would have been the time to issue not a great long manifesto but a short 'deal with brexit' and several major domestic policies, like nationalisation - saying something like 'when we have replaced the shitty tory exit plan with one which we can commend to the people we will place it before the public for a confirmatory vote which will remove this divisive issue from our national debate. once this is done we will turn to the major planks of our domestic agenda which include nationalisation of key resources, enabling everyone to take part in the digital society through expansion of superfast broadband and provision of computer skills tuition, and looking after the weakest in our society'.

 

[Idris2002]

Deck chairs and Titanic.

Labour leave, and labour respect-the-result voters were massively offended when Labour stopped talking about respecting the result and started moving towards a second ref - that's when trust went down the shitter. When they started saying that they wouldn't even vote for a leave deal that they had negotiated the game was completely dead in the water.

It was - or appeared to be, which in politics is the same thing - a London-centric, remainer stitch-up where labour were now saying they would negotiate a different deal, then come back and then vote against it in another referendum. No choice, and no brexit was what the electorate heard, and no slogan was going to cut through that visceral betrayal of trust.

They weren't keen on Corbyn to start with, but that made them lose their shit...

I was thinking that even if the referendum was advisory, and not legally binding. . . it was still politically binding. Precisely because, unlike in Ireland, referenda in the UK system are not a normal, everyday part of political life, but are instead something very unusual, only resorted to (in most cases) when a party is fatally split over some key issue. And when a party in control of parliament delegates its sovereign power to a popular referendum, regardless of the legal status of that referendum, its political status becomes fairly substantial.

And that's why watery bints chucking scimitars about isn't a rational basis for a system of government.

 

[chilango]

Twitter, obviously and predictably, is full of foam, froth and invective directed at the Labour Left and it's commentariat personalities.

...but how many of these critics would've ever voted Labour anyway? Just as the Left should've turned down the volume on the #fbpe noise that may have contributed to errors this time, they should do the same now before lurching rightwards and turning on their left mouthpieces.

 

[Pickman's model]

Twitter, obviously and predictably, is full of foam, froth and invective directed at the Labour Left and it's commentariat personalities.

...but how many of these critics would've ever voted Labour anyway? Just as the Left should've turned down the volume on the #fbpe noise that may have contributed to errors this time, they should do the same now before lurching rightwards and turning on their left mouthpieces.

the labour party is like a drunk staggering down the street veering first left then stumbling into the gutter then lurching right and bashing into a wall before zigging into the gutter again and on and on

 

[krtek a houby]

There is the odd dig at the ruling party

 

[treelover]

Nationalisation to start with. It fails every time and the press absolutely hammer anyone that puts it forward, that meaning unelectable.
Can you tell me of a time when a more left leaning Labour government managed to win two terms in office and completed both of them?

rail nationalisation is very popular, in fact I can see Johnson floating the idea, maybe public consultation.

 

[Pickman's model]

rail nationalisation is very popular, in fact I can see Johnson floating the idea, maybe public consultation.

johnson floating is very popular, especially if face down

 

[SpookyFrank]

rail nationalisation is very popular, in fact I can see Johnson floating the idea, maybe public consultation.

Yeah good luck with that.

 

[treelover]

'And that's why watery bints chucking scimitars about isn't a rational basis for a system of government.'

eh?

 

[Pickman's model]

'And that's why watery bints chucking scimitars about isn't a rational basis for a system of government.'

eh?

have you honestly never heard of king arthur and his sword excalibur and the lady of the lake? it is an allusion to monty python and the holy grail

 

[Crispy]

rail nationalisation is very popular, in fact I can see Johnson floating the idea, maybe public consultation.

The most they might stretch to wouldn't be real natioinalisation. It would be a tightening up of the franchise system to be more like London buses. Government control of infrastructure fares and routes, but traincos remaining private operators who get rewarded for achieving service levels within a set budget. A similar model they'll move the NHS further and further to.

 

[Wilf]

What kind of man spends half his life posting reams and reams of text nobody will read on a website where everyone hates him and thinks he's a thick cunt?

A fucking weirdo. Probably abuses animals when he's not boring the good people of urban.

He's the Ancient Mariner and we are the wedding guest, compelled to listen. Though I don't expect to emerge a wise and sadder man.

 

[mx wcfc]

rail nationalisation is very popular, in fact I can see Johnson floating the idea, maybe public consultation.

The Tories have just given Avanti the West Coast Franchise until 2031 - apparently to delay any nationalisation by an incoming Labour government

 

[treelover]

Ah, ok, scrub that one.

 

[Wilf]

Ditch all the shit policies, then get personalities that don't look and sound like fucking idiots. Not personality politics, just removing easy targets that keep labour in opposition.

So, basically, change everything. New policies, new people, new premises, new office cat. Its almost as if you want a new party.

 

[Pickman's model]

So, basically, change everything. New policies, new people, new premises, new office cat. Its almost as if you want a new party.

it's wicked to mock the afflicted

 

[Idris2002]

the labour party is like a drunk staggering down the street veering first left then stumbling into the gutter then lurching right and bashing into a wall before zigging into the gutter again and on and on

He'll make it home in the end, mind. Heavily bruised though he be.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Whereas the Tories were on point on messaging - 'Get Brexit Done' was practically their only message - repeated again and again - clearly that worked.

Helps if nobody in the media pulls you up on the fact you promised numerous times to get it done by Halloween or die in the attempt.

 

[treelover]

any figures for BAME votes yet, over a million for the Tories last time.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Helps if nobody in the media pulls you up on the fact you promised numerous times to get it done by Halloween or die in the attempt.

TBF I saw them pulled up on that on a number occasions, but it was easy to bat away, by blaming the other parties.

 

[treelover]

looking at the DM headlines, Tories appear to want to govern like the danish social democrats, control of borders, public investment, of course whether they do is another thing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

looking at the DM headlines, Tories appear to want to govern like the danish social democrats, control of borders, public investment, of course whether they do is another thing.

The sooner you abandon this idea of Johnson actually investing in things or acting like some kind of reasonable centrist, the less the disappointment will sting.

 

[ska invita]

One of the other issues as i have been reading is for some time, some of the red wall, is not really that constituency any more, Newcastle Under Lyme for example, is now full of retirees, commuters, a few ex mining towns are like that.

interesting that, would be (fairly) curious to see per seat demographics including on the vote itself. Of course its true that grassroots politics have to be done by local people - you cant/wouldn't want to parachute/astroturf - which leads to the question, who lives in place X exactly to engage in this? Age as well as wealth is an issue too

(not sure as change since when on that graph but gives an impresion)

 

[Pickman's model]

interesting that, would be (fairly) curious to see per seat demographics including on the vote itself. Of course its true that grassroots politics have to be done by local people - you cant/wouldn't want to parachute/astroturf - which leads to the question, who lives in place X exactly to engage in this? Age as well as wealth is an issue too

this change, what period is it over? or what's your source?

 

[ska invita]

this change, what period is it over? or what's your source?

ETA'd (not sure as change since when on that graph but gives an impresion)

will have a look though

 

[Pickman's model]

looking at the DM headlines, Tories appear to want to govern like the danish social democrats, control of borders, public investment, of course whether they do is another thing.

if you put a 'national' in there you may find additional points of reference

 

[ska invita]

this change, what period is it over? or what's your source?

past 3 decades according to
@centrefortowns

 

[Proper Tidy]

looking at the DM headlines, Tories appear to want to govern like the danish social democrats, control of borders, public investment, of course whether they do is another thing.

No. Whenever they get elected they trot out some crap in the early days, May did the same pre and post '17 results, lots of 'tanks on labour's lawn', a workers manifesto blah. It doesn't match the reality. Tories are not going to go scandi social democrats with stronger borders. Maybe the latter but probably not.

 

[Pickman's model]

No. Whenever they get elected they trot out some crap in the early days, May did the same pre and post '17 results, lots of 'tanks on labour's lawn', a workers manifesto blah. It doesn't match the reality. Tories are not going to go scandi social.democrats with stronger borders. Maybe the latter but probably not.

yeh every incoming prime minister makes nice sounding comments but within a month or two down the line these happy sentiments are forgotten

 

[ska invita]

No. Whenever they get elected they trot out some crap in the early days, May did the same pre and post '17 results, lots of 'tanks on labour's lawn', a workers manifesto blah. It doesn't match the reality. Tories are not going to go scandi social democrats with stronger borders. Maybe the latter but probably not.

They understand bungs and bribes though, so chucking some money at their new northern seats is a possibility, but it'll go into tory businessmans hands and the trickledown will be irrelevant as per