The 2019 General Election

[billy_bob]

Tory-voing working class people are still WC people getting exploited by bosses and the Tories. Best not to forget that

Course they are, but equally Labour has long - perhaps always - exploited its wc voters. All New Labour did was sugar-coat the turd Thatcher had done on mining and other post-industrial communities,* and not out of any loyalty to them but to ensure that appalling human beings like Alan Milburn could be installed in seats where they could get away with doing fuck-all locally while they were busy with their cabinet agendas.

*often with the help of the EU funding those communities have repeatedly been accused of being too stupid or ungrateful to appreciate in the last three years - it all adds up, doesn't it?

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

I don't think any recent election has had over 50% of the votes. Possibly 1945 did (not checked any figures)

Attlee got a smidge under 48%

 

[brogdale]

Have we had any regretful tory voter vox pops yet?
Can't be long?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Has anyone seen an age breakdown of the exit polling?
Wondering whether a few hundred thousand older English people in the north, probably retired, have moved labour to BP/con and had a significant impact on the result. Whilst others stayed at home.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Have we had any regretful tory voter vox pops yet?
Can't be long?

Give it until Johnson extends the transitional period.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[Sprocket.]

The writing was on the wall for Flint, when areas like Denaby Main, regarded in 74 as the most militant, bloody-minded area in Britain, voted 85% Leave.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Following the defeat of Dennis Skinner, my MP, Peter Bottomley, becomes 'Father of the House of Commons'.

Momentum is very active here, got the first Labour councillor in 41 years elected to the borough council in 2017, more in 2018 & this year, meaning we now have 10, and Bottomley isn't happy.

In his victory speech, he launched a scathing attack on the Labour leader.

"Corbyn, it is time for you to get out of the way," he said. "Your world view has been rejected, your national view has been rejected and I hope Momentum will leave town and we can get the Labour Party back."

 

[treelover]

The writing was on the wall for Flint, when areas like Denaby Main, regarded in 74 as the most militant, bloody-minded area in Britain, voted 85% Leave.

bur what do they think will happen now?

Goldthorpe, that saw the thatcher death celebrations, voted same, ffs.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Did Goldthorpe vote Tory?

 

[Brainaddict]

Twitter is full of people saying Labour could have won by going full remain. Facts never touch some people do they?

 

[equationgirl]

Thankfully people generally tend not to talk about politics at work - I don't think I could bear it if people behaved like that.

I retreated to the kitchen. I didn't want to say anything that would get me disciplined.

 

[Sprocket.]

bur what do they think will happen now?

Goldthorpe, that saw the thatcher death celebrations, voted same, ffs.

I’m gutted but sadly not surprised.
My dad’s family and all my wife’s family are from Denaby.
I worked in Goldthorpe, between 79 to 91. Incredible people, salt of the earth. But lately I just hear the same story over and over that Labour has abandoned these areas. Whatever the truth, facts or cause, these people have totally lost faith in Labour as a party that looks after the WC.

 

[Brainaddict]

I feel like the Tories offered people a chance at self-respect through the reliable old medium of nationalism - always the best way to create unity across class divides. Sometimes I've been baffled by the success of the Brexit narrative coming from a bunch of spivs. But I've realised it's always been about stirring up nationalism.

Labour offered free broadband. And a load of other good stuff. But they didn't offer self-respect.

That's my initial thought on the media-game level. There's also an extent to which the left should never leave itself at the mercy of the media game. It should be creating practical solidarity between elections, building a politics that isn't at the mercy of the media. That also didn't happen.

Thus we are fucked.

 

[Sprocket.]

Did Goldthorpe vote Tory?

11,000+ for BP.
John Healey back for Labour.

 

[butchersapron]

I feel like the Tories offered people a chance at self-respect through the reliable old medium of nationalism - always the best way to create unity across class divides. Sometimes I've been baffled by the success of the Brexit narrative coming from a bunch of spivs. But I've realised it's always been about stirring up nationalism.

Labour offered free broadband. And a load of other good stuff. But they didn't offer self-respect.

That's my initial thought on the media-game level. There's also an extent to which the left should never leave itself at the mercy of the media game. It should be creating practical solidarity between elections, building a politics that isn't at the mercy of the media. That also didn't happen.

Thus we are fucked.

There is an ingrained sense of the legitimacy of the democratic vote (i mean any democratic vote) amongst w/c communities - even those alienated from formal politics, even from those who voted remain. I don't think that exists to the same extent across all of society. The tories could campaign with that as background understanding in these areas - not nationalism.

 

[Brainaddict]

There is an ingrained sense of the legitimacy of the democratic vote (i mean any democratic vote) amongst w/c communities - even those alienated from formal politics, even from those who voted remain. i don't think that exists to the same extent across all of society. The tories could campaign with that as background understanding in these areas - not nationalism.

That may be true in the north, I don't know, I admit to being a southerner. The working class Brexiters I've spoken to in the south-east haven't talked much about democratic legitimacy, just the odd comment about 'respecting the vote', but never as the main point (because I suppose that wasn't the issue when they first voted Brexit).

 

[xenon]

So Labour will swing rightwards with a centreist drone and likely lose again in 2024. Or dump Corbyn but keep the social democratic flavoured policies. Change the scenery and cast but keep the same script?

The former seems more likely, given the early prognostications.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

That may be true in the north, I don't know, I admit to being a southerner. The working class Brexiters I've spoken to in the south-east haven't talked much about democratic legitimacy, just the odd comment about 'respecting the vote', but never as the main point (because I suppose that wasn't the issue when they first voted Brexit).

You live in a different world to me. I’ve been warning people for 3 years that people were raging about this.

The reason why the people we are talking about voted to leave wasn’t primarily about the EU. The reason why they are furious about the frustration of the vote wasn’t primarily about the EU either.

Class inequality is complicated. Political alienation is corrosive and devastating. Being pushed to the periphery and demonised and sneered at hurts and provokes anger.

That after the GE sections of the left still don’t get or understand these points makes one thing clear. They are the problem

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So Labour will swing rightwards with a centreist drone and likely lose again in 2024. Or dump Corbyn but keep the social democratic flavoured policies. Change the scenery and cast but keep the same script?

The former seems more likely, given the early prognostications.

Wherever centrist third way politics entered the fray in the election it was smashed. It’s dead

 

[Idris2002]

Wherever centrist third way politics entered the fray in the election it was smashed. It’s dead

The Third Way was so associated with Blair, whose era is utterly dead.

 

[xenon]

Wherever centrist third way politics entered the fray in the election it was smashed. It’s dead

You'd think but there are plenty trying to reserect that corpse this morning.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The Third Way was so associated with Blair, whose era is utterly dead.

Precisely. Look at their new political formations: dead. Look at the PV: dead. Look at the failed dregs who stood: dead. LD’s: dead.

A once in a lifetime battle on the left is coming. But they won’t be part of it

 

[teuchter]

That after the GE sections of the left still don’t get or understand these points makes one thing clear. They are the problem

Your section of the left - which gets it - you believe that had they put together a manifesto for people to vote for - we'd be looking at a different result this morning? Is that your genuine belief?

 

[kebabking]

I've heard of very few conversations with 'should be' labour voters that suggested that going back to Blairite-Miliband-esque economic policies would be what would get them to vote Labour - the problem was overwhelmingly the london-based swing to remain and Corbyn personally.

From where I sit it looked like fairly obvious, Politics 101 stuff - accept the referendum result, and don't ask people to vote for a bloke who went on cycling holidays in East Germany, was best mates with Gerry Adams, and who, through his odd friendships and bizarre tastes in art, allowed himself to painted as anti-Semitic.

Corbynite economics were almost universally popular - and not just amongst would-be Labour motors - but the move away from respecting the vote, and the man personally, was electoral poison on the doorstep.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Your section of the left - which gets it - you believe that had they put together a manifesto for people to vote for - we'd be looking at a different result this morning? Is that your genuine belief?

People weren’t voting to stop investment. People weren’t going mental about plans to renationalise rail. There aren’t furious arguments about plans to set up a national investment bank

 

[teuchter]

People weren’t voting to stop investment. People weren’t going mental about plans to renationalise rail. There aren’t furious arguments about plans to set up a national investment bank

That doesn't answer the question.

 

[teuchter]

I've heard of very few conversations with 'should be' labour voters that suggested that going back to Blairite-Miliband-esque economic policies would be what would get them to vote Labour - the problem was overwhelmingly the london-based swing to remain and Corbyn personally.

From where I sit it looked like fairly obvious, Politics 101 stuff - accept the referendum result, and don't ask people to vote for a bloke who went on cycling holidays in East Germany, was best mates with Gerry Adams, and who, through his odd friendships and bizarre tastes in art, allowed himself to painted as anti-Semitic.

Corbynite economics were almost universally popular - and not just amongst would-be Labour motors - but the move away from respecting the vote, and the man personally, was electoral poison on the doorstep.

Johnson personally was fine though?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

That doesn't answer the question.

Historically successful movements were interconnected with a non state network of working class institutions including trade unions, cooperatives, newspapers, mutual aid groups, art scenes etc.

 

[kebabking]

Johnson personally was fine though?

No, he's not liked - but he respected their vote.