The 2019 General Election

[Ax^]

Cannot say I'm surprised by the vote result this morning,

was hoping for another hung parliament but as the Brexit ballocks has already be dragged out for 4 years already.

let just see how people react when they find out even if Boris pushes for the end of January deadline.

we still got years of this shit to come

 

[RD2003]

Fair. I agree with you on long term neglect. I don't agree so much on Brexit, which is a Tory grenade put through the window leaving no really good options.

But there will be this whole period now of self-flagellation and recrimination looking at, at most, the last few years if not just the campaign itself, and I think it's going to be really unfair: lots of people worked really hard to offer something positive, and it's not OK to write them off as should-have-done-better. That's a road that takes us to abandonment and inherent centrism.

The trouble is that the 'something positive' evidently wasn't positive in the eyes of too many people, particularly in the places where safe Labour seats were lost. That's because, the disastrous shift in the party on Brexit and some of the positive economic stuff aside, it reflected the preoccupations of today's radical left, which don't really have to be listed, as they have been endlessly debated on here. In particular, the obsession with 'identity' and lifestyle politics, reflecting the mentality of the largely middle class professional makeup of today's left, is evidently alienating for too many of the 'left behind,' as is the obsession with 'minorities' (which mirrors that of the right.)

This defeat represents the final nail in the coffin of the old left or what it has become, and has been a long-time in the making. The remnants of the far-left (along with those they have been able to drag in from the younger, self-righteous activist milieu) and their fellow-travellers in the LP will never again get so close to government, however far away that proved to be in the end. So what remains for them? Any change in approach will only ever be cosmetic, as they are, as as been proved time and time again, incapable of change. There will be a concerted attempt by the equally out-of-touch, Remain-obsessed Labour right, to rid the LP of their influence, which will fail because of the present-day party membership, and due to being based on politics made redundant by events since 2008, particularly Brexit. These factors, and the scale of the defeat, might mean that Labour will never be in government again, aside from in some kind of unlikely coalition. So it's back to mere protest politics for the old left. And that bodes ill: you only have to look at the hand-wringing, 'What-is-wrong-with-people-the-country-is-full-of cunts' incomprehending self-righteousness in this thread alone to realise that little or nothing will come of it. And talk of 'riots' in the summer smacks of desperation, and would only result in a further move to the right among the population. But none of this means we live in a right-wing society, just one where the delusions of lifestyle politics and 'identity' can easily be incorporated into an economy controlled by right-wing zealots.

 

[moochedit]

Thankfully people generally tend not to talk about politics at work - I don't think I could bear it if people behaved like that.

Same here. Although i used to share a room with a rabid ukipper. Glad he left. He'd be unbearable this morning.

 

[alex_]

Even if it is true someone else as leader would have done better (which it isn't) so fucking what? What would be the point of that? It would just have been more of the fucking same. It isn't about just getting a Labour win. It is about getting a government that might at least try to slow down the rate we are sinking into shit.

Better Boris than Blair ?

 

[Steel Icarus]

Tory-voing working class people are still WC people getting exploited by bosses and the Tories. Best not to forget that

 

[OzT]

does anyone know when has an election been won by number of seats and with over 51% of the voters please?

 

[emanymton]

Better Boris than Blair ?

False comparison Johnson (Not Boris) is taking charge of a country in a very diffrent position to Blair did.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Fair. I agree with you on long term neglect. I don't agree so much on Brexit, which is a Tory grenade put through the window leaving no really good options.

But there will be this whole period now of self-flagellation and recrimination looking at, at most, the last few years if not just the campaign itself, and I think it's going to be really unfair: lots of people worked really hard to offer something positive, and it's not OK to write them off as should-have-done-better. That's a road that takes us to abandonment and inherent centrism.

Edit: I'm not saying you yourself are doing that, just want to be really cautious of blaming 'the left' for failing to handle a really difficult scenario

Yes, lots of people did work really hard and I don’t think anyone is blaming them- but the message was still unavoidably “You shouldn’t have bothered voting in 2016, here have all these nice promises and do get out and vote again!”

As I said in another post ages ago even many working class remain voters think this attitude is rank, the ones you don’t hear shouting on social media, at work, etc.

 

[mauvais]

RD2003 I don't think identity politics has been a big feature of this election or the party stuff leading up to it. Whilst I agree it's toxic to overall organising and solidarity, Labour ran on a public services ticket. I also think they did change significantly. Whether it sticks is another matter.

Identity politics is not the same thing as not listening to people or operating in a middle class metropolitan bubble.

 

[moochedit]

does anyone know when has an election been won by number of seats and with over 51% of the voters please?

I don't think any recent election has had over 50% of the votes. Possibly 1945 did (not checked any figures)

 

[crossthebreeze]

Yeesh, leftie social media replete with "the working classes are all stupid racist scumbags" today. Like guys I know you're disappointed, but blaming working class people for being too thick and mean to agree with you ain't the way.

Yeah that shit is doing my head in as much as the result and the gloating tories.

 

[treelover]

I think a dislike of labour councils has had some impact in many of the 'red wall' seats.

 

[moochedit]

I don't think any recent election has had over 50% of the votes. Possibly 1945 did (not checked any figures)

Or do you mean over 50% turnout? I think most general elections manage that.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah that shit is doing my head in as much as the result and the gloating tories.

Whilst simultaneously phil collins-ing.

 

[RD2003]

RD2003 I don't think identity politics has been a big feature of this election or the party stuff leading up to it. Whilst I agree it's toxic to overall organising and solidarity, Labour ran on a public services ticket. I also think they did change significantly. Whether it sticks is another matter.

Identity politics is not the same thing as not listening to people or operating in a middle class metropolitan bubble.

It's perception though. The identity brigade don't seem to realise that to those who don't live in social media or in their own little bubbles, they appear a little insane.

 

[OzT]

Or do you mean over 50% turnout? I think most general elections manage that.

No I meant over 51% of the people who voted, so they can say they really ARE the majority, not just in the number of seats.

 

[pinkychukkles]

Just to note - people who voted = turnout

The electorate = anyone who is eligible to vote, whether they do so or not.

 

[OzT]

You're right pinkychukkles my error

 

[Celyn]

Sadly there are a large number of bastards in the country - particularly England.

Not England's fault. Not the fault of one particular country, not completely. Bastards are everywhere. Likewise, plenty of people in England who are not Tory bastards. Most people, really. I don't know what we can do.

Don't mourn ... well you know the rest.

 

[pinkychukkles]

You're right pinkychukkles my error

no worries

As an aside, I would like voting to be compulsory but for there to also be a "None of the above" on every ballot paper. [/derail]

 

[moochedit]

No I meant over 51% of the people who voted, so they can say they really ARE the majority, not just in the number of seats.

Well i just quickly googled thatcher in 1983 (the "landslide") and blair in 1997 and they were 42.4% and 43.2% so i doubt 50% of the votes has happenned very often if ever.

 

[butchersapron]

Macmillan got 49.7% in 59. The 1935 election had 55% for Baldwin.

edit: no, think i read that wrong

 

[Celyn]

...

"Liked" because I will take time to read this properly.

 

[treelover]

The trouble is that the 'something positive' evidently wasn't positive in the eyes of too many people, particularly in the places where safe Labour seats were lost. That's because, the disastrous shift in the party on Brexit and some of the positive economic stuff aside, it reflected the preoccupations of today's radical left, which don't really have to be listed, as they have been endlessly debated on here. In particular, the obsession with 'identity' and lifestyle politics, reflecting the mentality of the largely middle class professional makeup of today's left, is evidently alienating for too many of the 'left behind,' as is the obsession with 'minorities' (which mirrors that of the right.)

This defeat represents the final nail in the coffin of the old left or what it has become, and has been a long-time in the making. The remnants of the far-left (along with those they have been able to drag in from the younger, self-righteous activist milieu) and their fellow-travellers in the LP will never again get so close to government, however far away that proved to be in the end. So what remains for them? Any change in approach will only ever be cosmetic, as they are, as as been proved time and time again, incapable of change. There will be a concerted attempt by the equally out-of-touch, Remain-obsessed Labour right, to rid the LP of their influence, which will fail because of the present-day party membership, and due to being based on politics made redundant by events since 2008, particularly Brexit. These factors, and the scale of the defeat, might mean that Labour will never be in government again, aside from in some kind of unlikely coalition. So it's back to mere protest politics for the old left. And that bodes ill: you only have to look at the hand-wringing, 'What-is-wrong-with-people-the-country-is-full-of cunts' incomprehending self-righteousness in this thread alone to realise that little or nothing will come of it. And talk of 'riots' in the summer smacks of desperation, and would only result in a further move to the right among the population. But none of this means we live in a right-wing society, just one where the delusions of lifestyle politics and 'identity' can easily be incorporated into an economy controlled by right-wing zealots.

Anyone who has fought to get issues like welfare reform as a key campaign by the left will agree with you, a number of years ago, benefit campaigners in London held a Requiem for the dead in parliament square, i think there were about 20 there, this in a city where protesters are on the streets for every global issue going, etc. Here in Sheffield, a major meeting on social care saw 10 people, a few months later, one on a deportation had over 100 on a rainy Monday night. i also saw it with the priorities of the motions to the CLP.

 

[moochedit]

So i guess we have a labour leadership contest coming up. Does "the left" have enough numbers now in the mp's to get a "left" candidate onto the ballot? Or will the blairites manage to keep them off it?
Anyone know?

 

[andysays]

Tory-voing working class people are still WC people getting exploited by bosses and the Tories. Best not to forget that

Even if many of them appear to have lost sight of it

 

[Pickman's model]

I work in the NHS. I'm not in today but lots of colleagues have been in touch. We feel pretty broken but I suppose at least we're all in despair together.

There's already been talk of when we'll be striking over the US deal.

Let's see what happens with the six counties as that will have a big influence on whether a US trade deal gets past the house of representatives

 

[Proper Tidy]

While there is a lot of value in critiquing the identity focus of dominant left, its impact on this election was fuck all. This really was about brexit and about labour backing a second referendum. That's it.

 

[butchersapron]

So i guess we have a labour leadership contest coming up. Does "the left" have enough numbers now in the mp's to get a "left" candidate onto the ballot? Or will the blairites manage to keep them off it?
Anyone know?

There are no real blairites left. The left is in control of the party.

 

[RD2003]

Anyone who has fought to get issues like welfare reform as a key campaign by the left will agree with you, a number of years ago, benefit campaigners in London held a requiem for the dead in parliament square, i think there were about 20 there, this in a city where protesters are on the streets for every global issue going, etc.

Part of the trouble is that any fightback based on public sector workers and middle-class professionals is doomed to failure if it can't drag in the exploited working class in the private sector-where nobody will organise themselves because they're-rightly-shit scared of losing their jobs, and prey to those who will blame immigrants for their plight.