The 2017 General Election campaign

[killer b]

here is a tory turning against May...

Theresa May is 'responsible' for London terror attack and must resign says top David Cameron aide

 

[gawkrodger]

Would be interesting to see voting intentions of old bill this election

 

[Pickman's model]

...more 3rd hand tales being relayed to me this morning of solid Tory voters in the shires turning against May.

let us know when you hear 'a friend of friend of a friend of a friend' is going from tory to labour

 

[chilango]

let us know when you hear 'a friend of friend of a friend of a friend' is going from tory to labour

i just did

 

[Ranbay]

Staying with my Brother and Sister in law this week, convinced them both to vote for the first time and to vote Labour.

 

[Pickman's model]

i just did

i missed out one 'of a friend'

 

[gawkrodger]

Well I said Corbyn should be bold and lay into May over foreign policy and security. Certainly going to get headlines!

 

[billy_bob]

Interesting to see how it'll go down if he keeps pressing the point about UK govt funding terror groups abroad via the foreign govts that support them and the arms trade. Might win him some support from the type of person who complains about the size of the foreign aid budget (whether he wants their help is another matter, I'm just thinking it's a constituency he might not have convinced on other fronts but might do so on this one...)

 

[billy_bob]

Does blaming TM over police cuts make much sense in this case, though? Given that they had these guys shot within 8 minutes of receiving the emergency call, it's hard to argue they botched it this time...

 

[killer b]

He does seem to have seized the initiative on this doesn't he? The Today programme this morning was wall to wall police cuts / Saudi terror funding, hardly anything else got a look in.

I see he's just called for May to resign lol.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Any stick to beat a mangy cur

 

[Orang Utan]

Does blaming TM over police cuts make much sense in this case, though? Given that they had these guys shot within 8 minutes of receiving the emergency call, it's hard to argue they botched it this time...

Yes, it does. The police cuts have led to fewer resources in investigating potential future suspects. There have been reports that a friend of one of the suspects called a hotline to report their concerns about him and this possibly wasn't followed up

 

[billy_bob]

I see he's just called for May to resign lol.

calling for a serving prime minister to resign three days before polling day may not seem particularly realistic and when he was asked about May resigning for a second time, Corbyn said the election might be a better way of removing her. He said:

"We’ve got an election on Thursday and that’s perhaps the best opportunity to deal with it."

lol again

 

[ruffneck23]

Interesting to see how it'll go down if he keeps pressing the point about UK govt funding terror groups abroad via the foreign govts that support them and the arms trade. Might win him some support from the type of person who complains about the size of the foreign aid budget (whether he wants their help is another matter, I'm just thinking it's a constituency he might not have convinced on other fronts but might do so on this one...)

may can fuck off , police cuts when she was in the home office, just fuck off

 

[billy_bob]

Yes, it does. The police cuts have led to less resources in investigating potential future suspects. There have been reports that a friend of one of the suspects called a hotline to report their concerns about him and this possibly wasn't followed up

Yes, fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of how it's portrayed/perceived than the behind the scenes stuff of what the police haven't got the resources to do. The superficial image of the police handling this one fairly well despite the cuts seemed to be something that could be potentially harnessed to argue the opposite.

 

[billy_bob]

may can fuck off , police cuts when she was in the home office, just fuck off

Indeed she can. I think you meant to quote my other post though.

In case it needed saying (cos I can't tell if your second fuck off is directed at May or me!) I'm certainly not saying I think things are fine despite the cuts. Just speculating on how making an explicit link between the latest incident and the cuts will be received in general.

 

[Dogsauce]

It'll be 'corbyn talking down our police heroes' won't it? 'He says they're not up to the job'.

 

[ruffneck23]

Yes it was at the other post , and also not at you , was telling may to fuck off

 

[J Ed]

Yes Corbyn, this is brilliant. Asking her to resign is genius.

 

[J Ed]

Lock her up next

 

[ska invita]

More news from behind enemy lines...

A couple I know, 100% Tory voters. Vocally anti-Corbyn for months now. Aspirational high earners with a young family, portfolio of shares, managerial types.

Both are now saying that they can't stand May

One is now likely to vote Labour purely because of the Dementia Tax.

The other is wobbling, badly.

These are shoe-in Tory base votes that are being lost.

For me the most interesting bits of reading this election have come from first time Labour canvasser friends on facebook...This post from one yesterday really tallies with what you posted:

"Spent my third weekend door knocking Croydon Central, national campaigning and central London constituencies were suspended today but not anywhere else. The response in this close marginal has been very weird and very encouraging. We spoke to many white-haired retired middle class Tories, and what they have to say about Corbyn is virtually unanimous: he’s decent and they trust him even where they aren’t switching sides. Some however are converting to Labour. The diehards that aren’t very often say how much they respect Corbyn, not Labour but Corbyn because of his performance on TV. Even in Momentum we have always tried to make the case for politics not personalities, turns out the figure of Jeremy Corbyn was our best selling point all along.

An elderly couple today told me they had always voted Conservative but that the dementia tax and Corbyn’s TV appearances had turned their vote to Labour, another Tory told me he wasn’t voting for Theresa May because she was so obviously not fit for purpose and although he wouldn’t vote Labour he was impressed by Corbyn and his obvious sincerity. An elderly Tory told me three weeks ago, before the media had given Corbyn a real platform and before the dementia tax, that he was going to vote for Labour because of the railways.

The Labour right (who have been invisible in this election) have told us time and time again that we must move to the center (a euphemism for accepting the construct of austerity) in order to appeal to Tory voters and that has turned out to be wrong. If we stick to the politics of nationalisation and national investment, even natural conservative voters will potentially switch their vote. We could still lose this election for a lot of reasons by a fairly big margin but the argument that Corbyn and left policies are off putting is a dead argument."

 

[agricola]

Yes, fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of how it's portrayed/perceived than the behind the scenes stuff of what the police haven't got the resources to do. The superficial image of the police handling this one fairly well despite the cuts seemed to be something that could be potentially harnessed to argue the opposite.

They could try and do that, but its an argument that would be easily destroyed (if not turned entirely against them) because of the specific circumstances and timing of this attack.

 

[Raheem]

Labour have got to attack as hard as they can on security over the next couple of days. I don't see how they can overdo it. If they soft pedal, they are conceding the election.

 

[chilango]

For me the most interesting bits of reading this election have come from first time Labour canvasser friends on facebook...This post from one yesterday really tallies with what you posted:

"Spent my third weekend door knocking Croydon Central, national campaigning and central London constituencies were suspended today but not anywhere else. The response in this close marginal has been very weird and very encouraging. We spoke to many white-haired retired middle class Tories, and what they have to say about Corbyn is virtually unanimous: he’s decent and they trust him even where they aren’t switching sides. Some however are converting to Labour. The diehards that aren’t very often say how much they respect Corbyn, not Labour but Corbyn because of his performance on TV. Even in Momentum we have always tried to make the case for politics not personalities, turns out the figure of Jeremy Corbyn was our best selling point all along.

An elderly couple today told me they had always voted Conservative but that the dementia tax and Corbyn’s TV appearances had turned their vote to Labour, another Tory told me he wasn’t voting for Theresa May because she was so obviously not fit for purpose and although he wouldn’t vote Labour he was impressed by Corbyn and his obvious sincerity. An elderly Tory told me three weeks ago, before the media had given Corbyn a real platform and before the dementia tax, that he was going to vote for Labour because of the railways.

The Labour right (who have been invisible in this election) have told us time and time again that we must move to the center (a euphemism for accepting the construct of austerity) in order to appeal to Tory voters and that has turned out to be wrong. If we stick to the politics of nationalisation and national investment, even natural conservative voters will potentially switch their vote. We could still lose this election for a lot of reasons by a fairly big margin but the argument that Corbyn and left policies are off putting is a dead argument."

Yeah. Several Tory voters I've spoken to, who despised/ridiculed Corbyn only days ago, grudgingly admit that he's come across well on TV and this has changed their opinion of him, if not their vote.

 

[agricola]

Yes, it does. The police cuts have led to fewer resources in investigating potential future suspects. There have been reports that a friend of one of the suspects called a hotline to report their concerns about him and this possibly wasn't followed up

TBH this is a much more complex issue than just police cuts = terrorism.

The point (which to be fair to him Corbyn did elaborate on in the past) is that whilst they have protected or enhanced anti-terrorism funding, the cuts have fallen disproportionately on the rest of the service that do not fall within that administrative umbrella - even though those bits do play roles in the fight against terrorism anyway (not only in terms of intelligence gathering and neighbourhood contacts, but also in the initial response to attacks (as happened at Leytonstone), visible deterrence patrols etc), and are the bits of the service that people actually use and interact with on a daily basis.

When you then expand the number of armed officers and boost anti-terrorism units (as Cameron and May did after 2015) without a corresponding increase in recruitment of new officers, the result is to make the impact of the cuts even worse because the "extra" officers and staff almost always come from the rest of the service and are not replaced. The end result is (at least in London) what we have today - where the Met is in the middle of a process of combining boroughs (indeed one of the pilot sites covers Corbyn's constituency) in order to try and live within the means that the government has dictated.

 

[billy_bob]

Yeah. Several Tory voters I've spoken to, who despised/ridiculed Corbyn only days ago, grudgingly admit that he's come across well on TV and this has changed their opinion of him, if not their vote.

When we spend so much time absorbing media that focuses on reductionist arguments, soundbites and cartoonishly oversimplified portrayals of individuals and their motivations, and broadcasts 'debate' programmes that appear to show a public who are just as moronic, it's nice to be reminded that out in the real world many people still have the critical faculties to be able to think nuanced thoughts like this.

 

[danny la rouge]

Labour have got to attack as hard as they can on security over the next couple of days. I don't see how they can overdo it. If they soft pedal, they are conceding the election.

It's probably too late to have any effect. The Tories are traditionally seen as the party of law and order. If Corbyn wants to overturn that assumption, he's going to need to get that through to a lot of people. Most of whom aren't following the election.

 

[Raheem]

It's probably too late to have any effect. The Tories are traditionally seen as the party of law and order. If Corbyn wants to overturn that assumption, he's going to need to get that through to a lot of people. Most of whom aren't following the election.

It's not too late to have any effect. It might be too late to make the crucial difference. So, yes, Corbyn/Labour have to get through to a lot of people, which means hitting in hard.

 

[frogwoman]

My mum - Remainer liberal, upset about brexit, has voted mostly lib dem and green, is voting labour
My dad - has voted mostly lib dem and sometimes tory, is voting labour
No idea what my sister is voting. Her boyfriend is a lost cause I suspect lol, he voted lib dems in 2015

 

[danny la rouge]

It's not too late to have any effect.

You knew damn well my invisible parenthesis said "(...on the result)".

Christ it's irritating to come across someone as pedantic as am I.