Spanish Political News

[Raheem]

8 million people allowed to vote i think? Or is that just people?

Think it's 8 million people. Don't know how many eligible voters, but looks like either a very high abstention rate or a very large number of ballot boxes seized.

 

[butchersapron]

If they get 50% turnout they have their mad authorisation as the vote will be well over.

 

[butchersapron]

Think it's 8 million people. Don't know how many eligible voters, but looks like either a very high abstention rate or a very large number of ballot boxes seized.

They were boasting that only 15% got taken.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

8 million people allowed to vote i think? Or is that just people?

That's the total population.

Turnout of 2.2 million is somewhat under 50 per cent.

 

[Anudder Oik]

One of the many moments of tension today. Police charges going on at the bottom of this road.

Guarding the polling station. Most of these people had already voted and stayed on to protect the place. people of all ages.

People queued for up to 5 hours to vote as the app kept going down. I think these steel gates put the police off, so they left us alone. they were gonna look silly trying to smash that with a hammer.

Same place towards the end, crowd swelled as it's when we thought they might come to try and get the, by then, full ballot boxes.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Edit

 

[butchersapron]

**scrub**

 

[Tankus]

5.3m eligible to vote

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Electorate is around 5.4 million, so 2.2m counted votes is a turnout of around 40 percent.

 

[eoin_k]

That sounds high. 5.5 million electorate with a turnout of 4.1 for the last regional elections according to Wiki - in which case the turnout is pretty high given the way it was policed.

 

[butchersapron]

Not really a mandate in line with say the scottish ref - one side really really wanted it so votes must count more.

That's a poloarised situation - and i don't know how it maps onto the region and class. I do know the left opposed the north of italy for wanting to run off an being the richest region. Let's keep our moeny for us.

 

[dessiato]

My partner is Spanish ( not Catalan). Been watching footage of demos with her. One in Madrid opposing referendum and Catalan independence. She pointed out to me the flags and song they were singing was from the Franco period. Points out to me people giving Franco salutes.

As she said some of this goes back to Civil War. Catalan nationalists fought on republican side in Civil War. Franco suppressed Catalan language and culture. I think she supports referendum as those opposing it are the heirs to Franco. Her family were on Republican side in Civil War. Socialist not CP or anarchist.

She says in Spsin issues like Catalan nationalism are still affected by legacy of Civil War. Politicians on the right are often from Francoist families.

I was watching with her some of the demos on TV leading up to the vote. She said in one they were chanting slogan from the Spanish Civil War. Supporting the Catalans.

So what Im saying is that there is a background to what's been happening.

The Guardia Civil in her view were behaving like Francoist police.

I don't think my partner wants Spain broken up. But thinks the Spanish state is still behaving with Catalan nationalism like Franco did.

Over the last two years I've spent a lot of time reading about the civil war and Franco. Yesterday reflected the behaviour of the state towards "rebels" during that time. It is clear that those times, that animosity, has neither gone away nor the enmity faded.

In my opinion it is now time for the EU to state clearly, and firmly, that no state can behave in this way towards its people. Or are these EU states going to behave as they did before and during the civil war?

I believe there needs to be some sanctioning of the Spanish government. What form that takes I'm not sure. But the EU cannot, must not, allow this to pass without a strong message of censure being sent to the Spanish government.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That sounds high. 5.5 million electorate with a turnout of 4.1 for the last regional elections according to Wiki - in which case the turnout is pretty high given the way it was policed.

It is, and it's a stunning result, but it is still only around 35-37% of the electorate voting for independence, and given the way it was policed, it will have been the highly motivated voters turning out, which will skew the results. I don't know what it means, tbh, in terms of providing leverage for an official vote.

 

[butchersapron]

Turnout seems to be under 50% - so all off

 

[butchersapron]

Previously saying it was govt to proclaim now Parliament to decide - def retreat in last hours.

 

[Wilf]

Official (provisional) results by the Catalan Government :
Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464

I think the Catalan Govt would be mad to use these figures as the pure route to independence of democratic theory - the actions of the Spanish Govt are the thing that might ultimately deliver indie. However, if there were 15% stolen ballot boxes (which split the same way as the figures above), something around a majority of all eligible voters went for independence. That wouldn't be reproduced in a 'normal' referendum, but it was still a pretty impressive result.

 

[butchersapron]

This is the centre right wobble - he had the chance to go for it - his whole nationalist career ...and he fell at the last. Refusing to jump.

 

[butchersapron]

I think the Catalan Govt would be mad to use these figures as the pure route to independence of democratic theory - the actions of the Spanish Govt are the thing that might ultimately deliver indie. However, if there were 15% stolen ballot boxes (which split the same way as the figures above), something around a majority of all eligible voters went for independence. That wouldn't be reproduced in a 'normal' referendum, but it was still a pretty impressive result.

THEY MUST DO IT IN 48 HOURS

 

[not-bono-ever]

anyone know if the GC were shipped in from elsewhere or *locals* ( thinking of the miners strike here)

 

[Tankus]

time it with the strike for maximum turnout

 

[Raheem]

It is, and it's a stunning result, but it is still only around 35-37% of the electorate voting for independence, and given the way it was policed, it will have been the highly motivated voters turning out, which will skew the results. I don't know what it means, tbh, in terms of providing leverage for an official vote.

I wonder whether it was ever about securing an official vote. It's probably counterproductive in that respect. You need a broad coalition of parties, and my guess is these events will make it more difficult to attain, because a lot of Spanish people outside Catalonia will be of the view that you don't get any prizes for going ahead with an illegal referendum.

 

[gosub]

Turnout seems to be under 50% - so all off

au contraire. Exactly the position to get really messy

 

[butchersapron]

The boycott was strong. It might not be next time.

 

[butchersapron]

 

[gosub]

respect to the 45,586 who risked getting twatted to just put in a blank bit of paper

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I wonder whether it was ever about securing an official vote. It's probably counterproductive in that respect. You need a broad coalition of parties, and my guess is these events will make it more difficult to attain, because a lot of Spanish people outside Catalonia will be of the view that you don't get any prizes for going ahead with an illegal referendum.

I don't know tbh. The Spanish constitution is clear that such a thing cannot happen, so there would need to be a change to the constitution and so a vote among all Spanish citizens before there could be an official vote. Hence the impasse. I don't know how this will play out.

 

[mather]

Turnout seems to be under 50% - so all off

Does that take into consideration all the ballots confiscated by the Spanish police, which is estimated to be about 700,000 or so votes?

 

[butchersapron]

Does that take into consideration all the ballots confiscated by the Spanish police, which is estimated to be about 700,000 or so votes?

Maybe. Still, on or above 50% is death.

 

[butchersapron]

Does that take into consideration all the ballots confiscated by the Spanish police, which is estimated to be about 700,000 or so votes?

That's a huge figure. Can you support it?

 

[dessiato]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Today the Spanish government lost.