Spanish Political News

[mather]

Maybe. Still, on or above 50% is death.

Why? Not enough of a mandate?

 

[mather]

That's a huge figure. Can you support it?

It is a figure I have seen used a lot on Twitter.

 

[butchersapron]

Why? Not enough of a mandate?

Of course it's not - 36% of population where 50% have boycotted you.

 

[butchersapron]

It is a figure I have seen used a lot on Twitter.

I'll take that as a no.

 

[mather]

Of course it's not - 36% of population where 50% have boycotted you.

Boycotting me?

 

[butchersapron]

Boycotting me?

Boycotting the referendum.

 

[mather]

I'll take that as a no.

Some of those twitter feeds are from journalists reporting there but in a situation like this no one can get a truly objective count apart from the police who have made off with the confiscated ballots. It is reasonable to assume that the number of confiscated ballots is high given the huge police presence that the Spanish state has deployed and their overall heavy handed response to this whole situation.

 

[Raheem]

I don't know tbh. The Spanish constitution is clear that such a thing cannot happen, so there would need to be a change to the constitution and so a vote among all Spanish citizens before there could be an official vote. Hence the impasse. I don't know how this will play out.

Yes. So to get an official referendum, you need to build broad political support, and what has just happened won't further that aim. I suspect it may be mostly just about the JxSí leadership putting itself in a position where it was unable to back down. I can't see how their cause is particularly advanced, although I may be missing something. Perhaps they hope to galvanise support, but it seems to me that the pool of floating voters is quite small. Of course, there will be a lot of fallout, which might benefit them or it might not, but not in ways they could have predicted.

 

[butchersapron]

I'll walk 'em up the hill...you walk 'em back down.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Catalan govt. pretty much declaring independence this morning.

General strike called for tomorrow.

Spanish PM says there was no referendum

 

[Libertad]

anyone know if the GC were shipped in from elsewhere or *locals* ( thinking of the miners strike here)

None of the GC would've been local. The GC never "serve" in their own area, it's part of their MO.

 

[chilango]

...and after such a very public "no route to independence via the ballot box" display by the Spanish state, where does this leave the Basque Country and ETA?

 

[Pickman's model]

...and after such a very public "no route to independence via the ballot box" display by the Spanish state, where does this leave the Basque Country and ETA?

Same place as the day before yesterday

 

[19sixtysix]

...and after such a very public "no route to independence via the ballot box" display by the Spanish state, where does this leave the Basque Country and ETA?

Maybe time to follow the West Papuans who have just presented to the UN a petition with 1.9million signature for liberation from their Indonesian tyrants.

 

[Favelado]

On the bright side, it's my first day back at work after the summer and this means my lessons have been planned for me.

 

[Poi E]

Maybe time to follow the West Papuans who have just presented to the UN a petition with 1.9million signature for liberation from their Indonesian tyrants.

Extraordinary effort by the West Papuan people.

"Not on the agenda" as it was rejected by the UN decolonisation committee.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

...and after such a very public "no route to independence via the ballot box" display by the Spanish state, where does this leave the Basque Country and ETA?

Asking the French for their weapons back?

 

[sim667]

I don't imagine many people in Catalonia will be cheering on the Gaurdia Civil.

People in Catalonia have never cheered the Guardia. When my Grandparents moved there the locals told them to avoid any dealings with Guardia like the plague, which was difficult as the local police forces were tiny sizes then. Since Mossos have grown you don't see many Guardia in Catalonia now.

 

[sim667]

I think its safe to say that Madrid will just keep saying this was an illegal vote, and nothing will come of it. But I do think its certainly caught attention by the rest of the world and more specifically the EU as to what extent Madrid will go to to silence dissent in places like Catalonia and the Basque country, and will hopefully encourage people to scrutinise the reliance on tactics from the Franco era.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think its safe to say that Madrid will just keep saying this was an illegal vote, and nothing will come of it. But I do think its certainly caught attention by the rest of the world and more specifically the EU as to what extent Madrid will go to to silence dissent in places like Catalonia and the Basque country, and will hopefully encourage people to scrutinise the reliance on tactics from the Franco era.

tbh the vote's no longer the issue, it has been superseded

 

[butchersapron]

I think its safe to say that Madrid will just keep saying this was an illegal vote, and nothing will come of it. But I do think its certainly caught attention by the rest of the world and more specifically the EU as to what extent Madrid will go to to silence dissent in places like Catalonia and the Basque country, and will hopefully encourage people to scrutinise the reliance on tactics from the Franco era.

The EU? What have they said and done? What do you think that they a) can do b) are likely to do?

 

[sim667]

tbh the vote's no longer the issue, it has been superseded

The vote may not be the issue, but it exposes what is quite a local struggle to a wider audience, more specifically the way in which Madrid reacts.

 

[Pickman's model]

The vote may not be the issue, but it exposes what is quite a local struggle to a wider audience, more specifically the way in which Madrid reacts.

and how is madrid reacting to yesterday's events?

 

[Wilf]

I'm still not clear about these figures. 2,020,141 looks like 90% of the 42.3% turnout (with 15,000 still to count apparently). But the regional government are claiming 700,000 were confiscated. I'm not sure - if true - whether they were confiscated before voting took place or after. In either scenario, the turnout would have been higher had they not been confiscated.

I agree with those saying the Catalan government would be mad to say yesterday adds up to the right to declare independence in the next few days, month etc. But if there were 700,000 and they split 90%/10% as the rest have done, it gets close to a messy kind of mandate.

 

[sim667]

and how is madrid reacting to yesterday's events?

Sorry, I meant reacted.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm still not clear about these figures. 2,020,141 looks like 90% of the 42.3% turnout (with 15,000 still to count apparently). But the regional government are claiming 700,000 were confiscated. I'm not sure - if true - whether they were confiscated before voting took place or after. In either scenario, the turnout would have been higher had they not been confiscated.

I agree with those saying the Catalan government would be mad to say yesterday adds up to the right to declare independence in the next few days, month etc. But if there were 700,000 and they split 90%/10% as the rest have done, it gets close to a messy kind of mandate.

it is fairly clear


if here they are talking about ballots that means completed voting papers from the context

 

[butchersapron]

I'm still not clear about these figures. 2,020,141 looks like 90% of the 42.3% turnout (with 15,000 still to count apparently). But the regional government are claiming 700,000 were confiscated. I'm not sure - if true - whether they were confiscated before voting took place or after. In either scenario, the turnout would have been higher had they not been confiscated.

I agree with those saying the Catalan government would be mad to say yesterday adds up to the right to declare independence in the next few days, month etc. But if there were 700,000 and they split 90%/10% as the rest have done, it gets close to a messy kind of mandate.

if it were like the scottish referendum sure - that argument could be made. On this one - no.

 

[Silas Loom]

Sensible thing for Madrid to do: find, sack and prosecute a GC scapegoat, then allow Catalan splitters to hold a referendum, but only after they have had "in principle" discussions with the EU about the terms on which they would be admitted, with the referendum question to be predicated on a published, budgeted plan for independent statehood. That kicks the can past the point where the footage from yesterday affects things too much, and means a "no" is still the likeliest option.

Unfortunately, they aren't a sensible government.

 

[gosub]

Of course it's not - 36% of population where 50% have boycotted you.

over 800 injured doesn't say 'boycotted' to me.

 

[butchersapron]

over 800 injured doesn't say 'boycotted' to me.

I reckon less than 50% turnout does. That and, you know the calls not to vote.

What a silly post.