emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Hungary.
Russia to stop gas supplies to Europe (1/4/22)
- Thread starter cupid_stunt
- Start date
ska invita
back on the other side
German investigation points to Ukrainians blowing up Nordstream, possibly with US support
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German magazine Der Spiegel has published a lengthy and detailed investigation into the attack on the Nord Stream pipeline.
It cites German investigators – who are undertaking what one senior security official described as “the most important investigation of Germany’s postwar history because of its potential political implications” – and reported that “a striking number of clues point to Ukraine”.
The pipelines were built to carry Russian natural gas to Germany and Der Spiegel reported that the operation intended to inflict “lasting damage to the functionality of the state and its facilities. In this sense, this is an attack on the internal security of the state.”
A member of parliament from a party that is a member of the German government coalition told the magazine: “Everyone is shying away from the question of consequences.”
Nancy Faeser, Germany’s interior minister, said: “I hope that the [German] federal prosecutor will find enough clues to indict the perpetrators.”
Der Spiegel said that while Germany “couldn’t simply brush off such a serious crime … suspending support for Ukraine in its war against Russia also wouldn’t be an option.” If the US provided assistance to the attack, that would add further complexity to the issue facing German policymakers, it added.
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German magazine Der Spiegel has published a lengthy and detailed investigation into the attack on the Nord Stream pipeline.
It cites German investigators – who are undertaking what one senior security official described as “the most important investigation of Germany’s postwar history because of its potential political implications” – and reported that “a striking number of clues point to Ukraine”.
The pipelines were built to carry Russian natural gas to Germany and Der Spiegel reported that the operation intended to inflict “lasting damage to the functionality of the state and its facilities. In this sense, this is an attack on the internal security of the state.”
A member of parliament from a party that is a member of the German government coalition told the magazine: “Everyone is shying away from the question of consequences.”
Nancy Faeser, Germany’s interior minister, said: “I hope that the [German] federal prosecutor will find enough clues to indict the perpetrators.”
Der Spiegel said that while Germany “couldn’t simply brush off such a serious crime … suspending support for Ukraine in its war against Russia also wouldn’t be an option.” If the US provided assistance to the attack, that would add further complexity to the issue facing German policymakers, it added.
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ska invita
back on the other side
NY Times had the same conclusion back in March 2023 based on intelligence "reviewed by U.S. officials"
not clear to me if this matches with Hersh's fingerpointing article
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ska invita
back on the other side
well it might be hard for germany to pretend it didnt happen...and therefore ukraine too....could be a significant diplomatic impact...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I’d have thought that German intelligence would have have reached a conclusion sometime ago and have remained stum. If the story has any credibility and an opposition party makes it an issue it’s probably a question of managing it now or risking it becoming embroiled in the election next year.
ska invita
back on the other side
I wonder how AfD will react, currently flying high in the German polls (second place on record approx 22pc iirc)
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_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Dunno but we (UK) are still buying Jet A from India that most likely got refined from Russian Oil
Riklet
procrastinación
They may be looking to the success of Fratlei di Italia on this one... in power and running a government but without crawling to the Russians. Maybe.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
They’ll be pragmatic won’t they as most populist and far right Euro parties are? They’ll modify or put on the back burner policies in order to get elected or more likely part of a coalition if the cordon sanitaire is dispensed with .
I suspect they’ll continue campaigning against Ukrainian refugees ( although they are white) and against funding for the war .
If , and it’s a big and speculative if , the bombing of the pipeline becomes an election issue there’s a lot of potential.
ska invita
back on the other side
Haven't seen this latest Der Spiegel mentioned much so did a little search by date... Still not found anything new but did come across this in Washington Post from last month which has a fair bit of detail ... Maybe everyone knows this now but I didn't see this before..I remember the Discord leaks but don't remember reporting including Nord Stream in the GB media
U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline
THE DISCORD LEAKS | The CIA learned last June, via a European spy agency, that a six-person team of Ukrainian special operations forces intended to sabotage the Russia-to-Germany natural gas project
U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline
THE DISCORD LEAKS | The CIA learned last June, via a European spy agency, that a six-person team of Ukrainian special operations forces intended to sabotage the Russia-to-Germany natural gas project
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ska invita
back on the other side
Had a little look for AfDs' relation to Nordstream and Putin, not found much recent in english other than
AfD are pro-Putin
www.aspistrategist.org.au
and are pushing on the Nord Stream thing a bit
www.nysun.com
...how much they will do so going into an election is down to their strategists I guess
AfD are pro-Putin
How Germany’s far-right politicians became the Kremlin’s voice | The Strategist
In February, German parliamentarian Steffen Kotre, from the far-right party AfD (Alternative for Germany), was interviewed on Russian TV by the propagandist Vladimir Soloyvov. Kotre accused Western media of stirring up their populations against the ...
German Political Heavyweight Renews Questions Over Destruction of Nord Stream Pipeline
A spokesman for Congressman Jim Jordan says it’s time to ‘look into’ attempts to stifle free speech on high-profile pipeline attacks.
www.nysun.com
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Had a little look for AfDs' relation to Nordstream and Putin, not found much recent in english other than
AfD are pro-Putin
and are pushing on the Nord Stream thing a bitHow Germany’s far-right politicians became the Kremlin’s voice | The Strategist
In February, German parliamentarian Steffen Kotre, from the far-right party AfD (Alternative for Germany), was interviewed on Russian TV by the propagandist Vladimir Soloyvov. Kotre accused Western media of stirring up their populations against the ...
...how much they will do so going into an election is down to their strategists I guessGerman Political Heavyweight Renews Questions Over Destruction of Nord Stream Pipeline
A spokesman for Congressman Jim Jordan says it’s time to ‘look into’ attempts to stifle free speech on high-profile pipeline attacks.
General overview of the AfD and elections from Politico
Springtime for Europe’s fascists
You haven’t seen this movie before. This time Germany’s sharp lurch to the right is the phenomenon to watch.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
EU imports record volumes of liquefied natural gas from Russia ( Financial Times)
The caveat here is 'The jump comes from a low base as the EU did not import significant amounts of LNG before the war in Ukraine due to its reliance on piped gas from Russia.'US rethinks gas exports, spooking Europe
01/19/2024
The EU is banking on Washington approving major new LNG projects. The Biden administration might not play ball.
01/19/2024
The EU is banking on Washington approving major new LNG projects. The Biden administration might not play ball.
ska invita
back on the other side
Sweden Closes Investigation of Pipeline Blasts, but Stays Silent on Cause
The natural-gas connection was sabotaged in September 2022, seven months after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, prompting rampant speculation about who was to blame.
Seems like they don't dare to say who dunnit
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Highly dubiousSweden Closes Investigation of Pipeline Blasts, but Stays Silent on Cause
The natural-gas connection was sabotaged in September 2022, seven months after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, prompting rampant speculation about who was to blame.www.nytimes.com
Seems like they don't dare to say who dunnit
ska invita
back on the other side
entertaining conclusion to this interview in which Yanis is asked about the bombing of Nordstream (ive time stamped it so will start in the right place)
Novara were one of the very few media sources who reported on the bombing at the time and rightly said it is very very unlikely that the destruction was at the command of the Kremlin, hence the question being asked in this interview.....but what makes this interesting is Yanis's answer explaining why German politicians knowing it was the USA have politely kept their mouths shut ever since, the silence all the louder since the German investigation found USA was behind it....
the answer basically discussed the nature of Germain historic, and present, subservience to Washington < not sometime I've ever heard before
Novara were one of the very few media sources who reported on the bombing at the time and rightly said it is very very unlikely that the destruction was at the command of the Kremlin, hence the question being asked in this interview.....but what makes this interesting is Yanis's answer explaining why German politicians knowing it was the USA have politely kept their mouths shut ever since, the silence all the louder since the German investigation found USA was behind it....
the answer basically discussed the nature of Germain historic, and present, subservience to Washington < not sometime I've ever heard before
Sweden Closes Investigation of Pipeline Blasts, but Stays Silent on Cause
The natural-gas connection was sabotaged in September 2022, seven months after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, prompting rampant speculation about who was to blame.
Seems like they don't dare to say who dunnit
Denmark closes investigation into Nord Stream blast - BBC News
Danish police concluded the gas pipelines had been "sabotaged," but said there was no basis for pursuing a criminal case.
www.bbc.co.uk
Nord Stream sues insurers in London over 2022 pipeline blasts
Wonder what the legal proceedings will unearth
TopCat
Putin fanboy
The insurance underwriters won’t want to be left holding the baby
ska invita
back on the other side
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I can’t see that being the conclusion myself.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
‘An energy war is being waged’: former oil boss warns of price rises after Ukraine infrastructure attacks
Andriy Kobolyev calls for more weapons after Russia destroys one of Ukraine’s largest power plants
'A dramatic rise in European energy prices is inevitable if the Russian destruction of Ukrainian energy infrastructure continues unabated, the former chief executive of Ukraine’s state-owned oil company has warned.
Andriy Kobolyev, a former head of Naftogaz, said in an interview with the Guardian: “Russia is trying to wage a global energy war and Ukraine is part of that war and if the markets perceive that Russia is winning that war the consequences will be very serious. You will see a spike in prices all round the globe." '
'Kobolyev, one of Ukraine’s energy specialists and the chief executive of Naftogaz for seven years to 2021, has been fighting corruption charges in Ukraine that he claims are politically motivated.'
'Unlike the first winter of attacks, when Russia targeted Ukraine’s electricity-distribution network, the recent attacks have tried to destroy large-scale generation capacity, especially gas and coal capacity used when demand goes over the baseload.
'He warned: “We are going to see extensive blackouts... we are currently facing a way bigger crisis than Ukraine had a year ago. The problem is so critical for our economy that it needs solutions right now.'
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Ukraine is now hooked into the European energy grid, so can draw energy from that, but obviously this will increase demand/pricing as a consequence for the whole of Europe. These are the consequences of not ‘standing in the road’ and giving Ukraine the means to adequately defend itself.
Before the recent invasion they were an energy exporter, with a surplus in part due to their nuclear generation capacity. The loss of six reactors when Russia twocked the Zaporista plant will have already taken out what I believe was their biggest station. Russia has also taken solar installations in occupied areas back to Russia, literally just robbed it and taken away in trucks.
Before the recent invasion they were an energy exporter, with a surplus in part due to their nuclear generation capacity. The loss of six reactors when Russia twocked the Zaporista plant will have already taken out what I believe was their biggest station. Russia has also taken solar installations in occupied areas back to Russia, literally just robbed it and taken away in trucks.
ska invita
back on the other side
said with a straight face, amazing
“And when we talk about aggression, we think about Russia obviously,” added Maleterre
The Guardian of course squeezing out every ounce of willful ignorance over who blew up nordstream
Its the perfect example of war-mongers in action- keep raising the stakes then when there's a retaliation cry about it and justify your own existence as protectors and defenders
....exactly the same move Israel are currently so crudely trying to pull with their attempt to provoke Iran into all out war
“And when we talk about aggression, we think about Russia obviously,” added Maleterre
The Guardian of course squeezing out every ounce of willful ignorance over who blew up nordstream
Its the perfect example of war-mongers in action- keep raising the stakes then when there's a retaliation cry about it and justify your own existence as protectors and defenders
....exactly the same move Israel are currently so crudely trying to pull with their attempt to provoke Iran into all out war
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Remind me who the warmongers are? Is it NATO again? How exactly are they escalating things, in the face of an all-out attack on Ukraine’s civilian infrastructure and the Kremlin’s stated desire to create a ‘sterile zone’ (no life viable) on their (stolen) border?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Remind me who conclusively blew up Nordstream? I know the WaPo had a lot to say on it several months back, but they never backed up any claims and moved on to other things.
I'm not saying Ukraine didn't do it. They're certainly a prime candidate. But it's a bit much to call it "willful ignorance" when no claims have been proven to date. And possibly never will be.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
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