Russia mobilises - consequences and reactions

[redsquirrel]

Yeah I've no patience with RD2003's line but this 'he loves Putin' stuff is bunk

 

[xenon]

RD's tedious and not pro Putin. He never answers what should be done from here though. Nato, the 90s yes, etc. But what now, leave Ukraine to it?

 

[spitfire]

Lots of videos of drunken conscripts doing the rounds but when you see the size of the bottle of vodka in this one you'll see how they get so pissed.

I genuinely feel sorry for these poor fuckers, I hope this idiotic move by Putin helps bring the whole sorry mess to a quicker end.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

There's a whole lot of people on the left who always say how they disapprove of the invasion and then spend all their time criticising Ukraine, NATO, the EU, Nazis etc etc. There's others who fully support Putin, not so many of these. But there's plenty who are in that first camp who quote Russian propaganda when it suits them, displaying either an appalling naivety or an appalling ignorance. Or being a tad dishonest. It's difficult to know sometimes which camp someone falls into. Maybe it's better to be clearer in what you post.

 

[The39thStep]

There's a whole lot of people on the left who always say how they disapprove of the invasion and then spend all their time criticising Ukraine, NATO, the EU, Nazis etc etc. There's others who fully support Putin, not so many of these. But there's plenty who are in that first camp who quote Russian propaganda when it suits them, displaying either an appalling naivety or an appalling ignorance. Or being a tad dishonest. It's difficult to know sometimes which camp someone falls into. Maybe it's better to be clearer in what you post.

Which camp should the poster that’s been accused of loving Putin be sent to ?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Which camp should the poster that’s been accused of loving Putin be sent to ?

Pontins

 

[Pickman's model]

Which camp should the poster that’s been accused of loving Putin be sent to ?

Bring back dalstroy

 

[Dystopiary]

twitter link

 

[RD2003]

The back of your dacha?

Wish I had a dacha. They're quite nice.

 

[RD2003]

The group pictured in these images were supporters of America First . An organisation riddled with prominent anti semitics, Nazi sympathisers one of whom, Laura Ingalls( who became one of their main speakers ) was subsequently jailed for being a Nazi spy .

Wouldn't it be a better, more considered option to just put the poster on ignore rather than carelessly and perhaps unintentionally suggesting that the poster is anti semitic and a Nazi?

I can't take seriously anything Strung Out says to me. He's been in a clearly excitable state for 7 months now.

I suspect he thinks he's living in Mariupol. Or somewhere.

 

[RD2003]

Ah, the standard Russian "it's the West to blame, you know..." line.

Anyway, your post isn't really relevant to the mobilisation issue, so probably wants to be in a more appropriate one...oh yes, I forgot, you shat in your own lunchbox on that one

Anybody who ignores the role of NATO's expansion eastwards in this war ignores reality.

 

[RD2003]

They also predicted flying cars.

Nuclear war seems the safer bet in the foreseeable.

 

[RD2003]

There's a whole lot of people on the left who always say how they disapprove of the invasion and then spend all their time criticising Ukraine, NATO, the EU, Nazis etc etc. There's others who fully support Putin, not so many of these. But there's plenty who are in that first camp who quote Russian propaganda when it suits them, displaying either an appalling naivety or an appalling ignorance. Or being a tad dishonest. It's difficult to know sometimes which camp someone falls into. Maybe it's better to be clearer in what you post.

I for one have never quoted 'Putin propaganda' (is this propaganda that Putin personally writes?) I have, however, quoted the views of many critics of the war, most of whom are supportive of Ukraine.

Don't know when criticism of NATO, the neo-liberal EU and the neo-liberal government of Ukraine became illegitimate on the left.

 

[RD2003]

Pontins

Centreparks. Better bike trails and sauna facilities.

 

[Cid]

Have you got anything to say about Russian mobilisation?

 

[Ax^]

NATO fault again


*shakes fist at Nato

 

[cupid_stunt]

I wish people would just put them on ignore, or at least stop responding to them, because it just buggers up threads.

 

[RD2003]

Have you got anything to say about Russian mobilisation?

Rough on the conscripts.

 

[Ax^]

Pontins camber sands

cfy

 

[Brainaddict]

Anybody who ignores the role of NATO's expansion eastwards in this war ignores reality.

You mean the NATO whose key members had said clearly and explicitly that they wouldn't accept Ukraine into NATO for fear of upsetting Russia? That NATO made Russia invade Ukraine? Very cunning of them. Playing the long game by refusing to let Ukraine be in NATO, so as to provoke Russia, by appeasing Russia.

 

[Ax^]

countries apply to join nato because of fears of Russia Expansionism

Russia invades Ukraine who were refused membership

Clearly All this is Natos fault alone

 

[AmateurAgitator]

The class war bubbles away under the surface, and will never go away. But it finds little political expression these days, and not at all with regard to this war.

Are you sure about that ?

A Report on Socio-Economic Unrest in Ukraine

(We reproduce the following article in solidarity with Assembly, an anarchist group based in Kharkiv which has been reporting on workers’ struggles in Ukraine on both sides of the front line (see: https://assembly.org.ua/).

www.leftcom.org

 

[RD2003]

You mean the NATO whose key members had said clearly and explicitly that they wouldn't accept Ukraine into NATO for fear of upsetting Russia? That NATO made Russia invade Ukraine? Very cunning of them. Playing the long game by refusing to let Ukraine be in NATO, so as to provoke Russia, by appeasing Russia.

Did I say anybody 'made ' anybody do anything?

I wish some posters would stick to answering what others actually say.

 

[WouldBe]

Innuendo, implication, whataboutery and selective silence.

That's easy when his head is so far up Putin's arse.

 

[spitfire]

I wish people would just put them on ignore, or at least stop responding to them, because it just buggers up threads.

 

[RD2003]

countries apply to join nato because of fears of Russia Expansionism

Russia invades Ukraine who were refused membership

Clearly All this is Natos fault alo ne

Fear of Russian expansionism that couldn't possibly have taken place at the time the process began, as Russia was miltarily and economically on its knees.

As if there would have been no signalss from NATO governments that expansion would be welcome and the process more or less a formality. The result being that the most western-friendly Russian government in history was alienated, making the rise of a regime like the present one all but inevitable.

 

[frogwoman]

Bit fed up of westerners criticising/jumping on Russians wanting to leave the country. I understand more when it's Ukrainians doing it but this sort of thing jeez

 

[frogwoman]

 

[editor]

The class war bubbles away under the surface, and will never go away. But it finds little political expression these days, and not at all with regard to this war.

Stay on topic or you'll get banned from this thread too.

 

[redsquirrel]

I hesitate to even bother but...

It would be a pretty bizarre interpretation of WWI that concluded that the formation of Triple Alliance and Triple Entente were not material factors relevant to the breakout of conflict. That is not the same thing as saying that they 'caused the war' or were deliberate attempts to "make" the other group start a war. But they were material factors that led to the conflict, and any sort of analysis that does not see the importance of such is ether liberal idealism or incoherent.

Tim Mason's theory of the flight forward, that Nazi Germany was 'forced' into war is not an attempt to absolve the crimes of the Nazi's. It is a based on looking at the material factors at play and coming to the judgement that internal and external factors that affected the regime meant that expansion and conflict were effectively inevitable.

I'm reluctant to make definitive claims about a conflict that is less than a year old, but I don't think it is crazy to suggest that the expansion of NATO (and the EU) are one of the material factors that have led to the the present conflict.
And seeing NATO expansion as a relevant material factor does not mean that one is absolving Putin of any responsibility for his murderous actions, it does not mean that one believes NATO were playing some game to "force" an invasion. It is an attempt to understand the material causes of the war.