Russia mobilises - consequences and reactions

[frogwoman]

Damn, I hope nobody I know there ends up at the front

 

[frogwoman]

Fuck I hate Putin

 

[Ming]

Fuck I hate Putin

He may be the man who pulls the temple down on all our heads. Yeah the guy‘s a prick.

 

[RD2003]

He may be the man who pulls the temple down on all our heads.

And all through the stupidity of those we 'choose' as our leaders. They knew from the attitude of the most western-friendly government Russia had ever had (Yeltsin's) the likely eventual Russian reaction towards expanding NATO eastwards, and continued nonetheless. They understood (or should have) the political direction of the Putin regime, which in itself came about as a reaction to western advice on the economy (which pretty much collapsed under Yeltsin), and still ploughed ahead.

It's particularly insane when you consider that NATO was formed in response to a threat which no longer existed. The USSR was history, and Russia on its knees when eastward expansion began, and no threat to any country beyond (potentially) the ex-USSR.

This is not to say (this for foaming, war-enthusiastic idiots) that Russia had to embark on its present course. But they knew it was a distinct possibility.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

The Graun wants us to surrender already.

”Western capitals should at least point out to Ukrainian leaders that their prospects of retaking all their territory may not be as bright as they hope. There is a very long way to go – their operation in Kharkiv was dramatic, but only bought them back a fraction of their territory. Whether it can be replicated for the remainder is uncertain. At a minimum, now is not the time to offer the Ukrainians advanced new weapons systems.”

Yes, Putin might use nuclear weapons. We need to plan for scenarios where he does | Christopher S Chivvis

Putin’s saber-rattling doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll deploy nukes. But he certainly could

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ming]

And all through the stupidity of those we 'choose' as our leaders. They knew from the attitude of the most western-friendly government Russia had ever had (Yeltsin's) the likely eventual Russian reaction towards expanding NATO eastwards, and continued nonetheless. They understood (or should have) the political direction of the Putin regime, which in itself came about as a reaction to western advice on the economy (which pretty much collapsed under Yeltsin), and still ploughed ahead.

It's particularly insane when you consider that NATO was formed in response to a threat which no longer existed. The USSR was history, and Russia on its knees when eastward expansion began, and no threat to any country beyond (potentially) the ex-USSR.

This is not to say (this for foaming, war-enthusiastic idiots) that Russia had to embark on its present course. But they knew it was a distict possibility.

Thing is you have to ask to join NATO. You don’t get invited. I do have to say though that policy planners in the West around the the time of the disintegration of the USSR must have known this. That smaller countries would want to be under the NATO umbrella with a nuclear armed neighbour. And on the Russian side too probably. I don’t even think how things have turned out is the law of unintended consequences. I think this was predictable.

 

[RD2003]

The Graun wants us to surrender already.

”Western capitals should at least point out to Ukrainian leaders that their prospects of retaking all their territory may not be as bright as they hope. There is a very long way to go – their operation in Kharkiv was dramatic, but only bought them back a fraction of their territory. Whether it can be replicated for the remainder is uncertain. At a minimum, now is not the time to offer the Ukrainians advanced new weapons systems.”

Yes, Putin might use nuclear weapons. We need to plan for scenarios where he does | Christopher S Chivvis

Putin’s saber-rattling doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll deploy nukes. But he certainly could

www.theguardian.com

'Us'? I wasn't aware 'we' were at war.

 

[RD2003]

Thing is you have to ask to join NATO. You don’t get invited. I do have to say though that policy planners in the West around the the time of the disintegration of the USSR must have known this. That smaller countries would want to be under the NATO umbrella with a nuclear armed neighbour. And on the Russian side too probably. I don’t even think how things have turned out is the law of unintended consequences. I think this was predictable.

It would be naive to think that NATO was just sat there twiddling its thumbs, waiting for applicants.

You're right in that all this was entirely predictable. Still, many science fiction writers, and others, have long predicted that we'd have the nuclear war sometime.

 

[RD2003]

Damn, I hope nobody I know there ends up at the front

It isn't inconceiveable that some of those I knew in Moscow 1988-91, in their mid-20s at the time, could end up there.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

'Us'? I wasn't aware 'we' were at war.

We are.

 

[RD2003]

We are.

News to 'us.'

 

[WhyLikeThis]

News to 'us.'

Aye, and many other in the West.

 

[RD2003]

Aye, and many other in the West.

That's because there is no 'us'.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

That's because there is no 'us'.

I was being UK centric in my post.

 

[RD2003]

I was being UK centric in my post.

In the UK there is no 'us.' The USA, which is driving all this, is a politically and socially speaking, tribal basket case, possibly with no long-term (in the expansive sense) future.

 

[The39thStep]

The Graun wants us to surrender already.

”Western capitals should at least point out to Ukrainian leaders that their prospects of retaking all their territory may not be as bright as they hope. There is a very long way to go – their operation in Kharkiv was dramatic, but only bought them back a fraction of their territory. Whether it can be replicated for the remainder is uncertain. At a minimum, now is not the time to offer the Ukrainians advanced new weapons systems.”

Yes, Putin might use nuclear weapons. We need to plan for scenarios where he does | Christopher S Chivvis

Putin’s saber-rattling doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll deploy nukes. But he certainly could

www.theguardian.com

"Russia must emerge from this crisis chastened for its recklessness." is this the new de-fang ?

 

[Pickman's model]

In the UK there is no 'us.' The USA, which is driving all this, is a politically and socially speaking, tribal basket case, possibly with no long-term (in the expansive sense) future.

In the long term we're all dead

 

[RD2003]

The Graun wants us to surrender already.

”Western capitals should at least point out to Ukrainian leaders that their prospects of retaking all their territory may not be as bright as they hope. There is a very long way to go – their operation in Kharkiv was dramatic, but only bought them back a fraction of their territory. Whether it can be replicated for the remainder is uncertain. At a minimum, now is not the time to offer the Ukrainians advanced new weapons systems.”

Yes, Putin might use nuclear weapons. We need to plan for scenarios where he does | Christopher S Chivvis

Putin’s saber-rattling doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll deploy nukes. But he certainly could

www.theguardian.com

In any case, that's an opinion piece. The Guardian's stance is so fanatically pro-Ukraine that they'd see us all on the brink.

That's today's liberals for you.

 

[strung out]

And all through the stupidity of those we 'choose' as our leaders. They knew from the attitude of the most western-friendly government Russia had ever had (Yeltsin's) the likely eventual Russian reaction towards expanding NATO eastwards, and continued nonetheless. They understood (or should have) the political direction of the Putin regime, which in itself came about as a reaction to western advice on the economy (which pretty much collapsed under Yeltsin), and still ploughed ahead.

It's particularly insane when you consider that NATO was formed in response to a threat which no longer existed. The USSR was history, and Russia on its knees when eastward expansion began, and no threat to any country beyond (potentially) the ex-USSR.

This is not to say (this for foaming, war-enthusiastic idiots) that Russia had to embark on its present course. But they knew it was a distinct possibility.

I knew it was all our fault.

 

[RD2003]

I knew it was all our fault.

Our fault? As I keep saying, who on earth do you think 'we' might be? Jesus Christ.

'We' are a bunch of hapless, powerless, exploited twats, manipulated at every turn, sitting in our living rooms, contemplating the imminence of nuclear war (or, more likely, trying not to think about/ oblivious to it.)

 

[strung out]

Our fault? As I keep saying, who on earth do you think 'we' might be? Jesus Christ.

You said 'those we chose as our leaders' - you brought us and we into it.

Anyway, I didn't choose them.

 

[RD2003]

You said 'those we chose as our leaders' - you brought us and we into it.

Anyway, I didn't choose them.

Didn't choose them, but, at least in this instance, back them to the hilt, with no criticism whatsoever.

 

[strung out]

Didn't choose them, but, at least in this instance, back them to the hilt, with no criticism whatsoever

You can't even be arsed to apologise for bringing 'our' and 'we' into the conversation then mistakenly criticising me for doing it

Anyway, I don't back them to the hilt - western leaders should be doing more to support Ukraine.

 

[RD2003]

You can't even be arsed to apologise for bringing 'our' and 'we' into the conversation then mistakenly criticising me for doing it

Anyway, I don't back them to the hilt - western leaders should be doing more to support Ukraine.

A post that makes no sense.

 

[strung out]

A post that makes no sense.

You pissed again?

 

[RD2003]

You pissed again?

Are you? With your enthusiasm for distant conflict, you seen permanently pissed to me.

Maybe you'd be better employed thinking about some more lives to throw on a fire than being smug on here.

 

[strung out]

Are you? With your enthusiasm for distant conflict, you seen permanently pissed to me.

Maybe you'd be better employed thinking about some more lives to throw on a fire than being smug on here.

Christ, you're tedious.

 

[RD2003]

Christ, you're tedious.

Maybe, but look in the mirror, warmonger.

 

[RD2003]

Whatever else you can say about the Gurdian opinion piece posted above, given the stakes it's difficult to argue with the conclusion.


'Putin has presented the world with impossible choices. Russia must emerge from this crisis chastened for its recklessness. But in the next few weeks, leaders need to find offramps to prevent the worst. This will take maximum flexibility and creativity from all sides.'

 

[strung out]

Maybe, but look in the mirror, warmonger.

This you?