Rochester & Strood by-election

[Pickman's model]

ive always respected articul8 for holding his corner on the boards, pretty much single handedly, and although i rarely agree i usually understand where he's coming from and can respect the sentiment
but on this one i just dont understand how there's room for any confusion - its an open and shut case - and amazingly his view isnt that uncommon, in as much as that there are a fair few blogs and articles out there who also dont understand the fuss to different degrees - ive found the whole thing eye opening

tbh i don't think he has ever held his own corner, he's been beaten, twatted, knocked about and always ending where he started, on the losing side.

 

[articul8]

She has been scapegoated to appease right wing tabloids. Simple as. The story here was the Tory failure to hold the seat. Miliband has only himself to blame for turning a Twitter spat into an overall admission of Labour snobbery. No wonder Butchers and all the haters are delighted with him.

 

[butchersapron]

She has been scapegoated to appease right wing tabloids. Simple as.

Irrelevant - your defence of her is relevant. You may try to make it about something beyond our understanding and some other internal game but each time you do this you just show that you can't read what that tweet meant and why you should be kept away from anything to with any election ever.

And btw you're the one doing the right wing tabloids game. No one else. You literally post their lies as fact, even when corrected.

 

[articul8]

Totally wrong. They have him well and truly on the back foot now

 

[butchersapron]

Totally wrong. They have him well and truly on the back foot now

Another refutation. Blimey, we are prived to be in the presence of such rigour.

 

[butchersapron]

Totally wrong. They have him well and truly on the back foot now

They/him - you' the one using them to attack him. Well done.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Indeed, he's petty much a puppet for progress/the sun/guido fawkes etc here. Odd thing is, a few years back he was giving us the line that Miliband has put the labour party back on track and is moving them in a definite left-wing direction. It almost looks like he was wrong doesn't it? But we all know that doesn't happen. Unless it later proves he was right to have been wrong at that point.

A few years before that, he was a Trot.

 

[articul8]

It is perfectly clear - they will only grant that he has started to listen and respect working class people if they were to go hard on benefits, immigrants and criminals.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fuck off with that Fabian shite too

So you're not a reformist, top-downist condescending shitehawk, then?

 

[articul8]

VP - l'll condescend to you , you daft twat, but the rest is bollocks

 

[butchersapron]

It is perfectly clear - they will only grant that he has started to listen and respect working class people if they were to go hard on benefits, immigrants and criminals.

He babbling his bubble again. Don't ever go out on the knocker...oh. Stay behind as a strategist...oh.

 

[Pickman's model]

It is perfectly clear - they will only grant that he has started to listen and respect working class people if they were to go hard on benefits, immigrants and criminals.

you're all over the fucking shop here. they = right wing media. he = miliband. so [right wing media] will only grant that [miliband]has started to listen to and respect working class people if [right wing media] were to go hard on benefits, immigrants and criminals.

you fucking what?

 

[Pickman's model]

VP - l'll condescend to you , you daft twat, but the rest is bollocks

you condescend to everyone, you're very condescending.

 

[articul8]

He babbling his bubble again. Don't ever go out on the knocker...oh. Stay behind as a strategist...oh.

This episode is a self-inflicted wound. Inflicted by Miliband

 

[butchersapron]

This episode is a self-inflicted wound. Inflicted by Miliband

Don't you ever do anything really. There's nothing you cannot make worse.

 

[articul8]

you fucking what?

No - only if Miliband dances to the right wing tabloid tune would they (the tabloids) grant he has started to listen to working people

 

[Pickman's model]

No - only if Miliband dances to the right wing tabloid tune would they (the tabloids) grant he has started to listen to working people

but that's not what you said.

 

[butchersapron]

No - only if Miliband dances to the right wing tabloid tune would they (the tabloids) grant he has started to listen to working people

Hold the line - flags and houses and vans are racist and people we don't want. No pasaran.

That someone so massively brained be could be so fucking thick, i'm shocked.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I wonder who articul8 really is? Why do I keep coming back to Ed Balls?

Nah. Ed Balls wouldn't go through the wanky ideological contortions that articul8 has. He's more of a Peter Watt.

 

[butchersapron]

No - only if Miliband dances to the right wing tabloid tune would they (the tabloids) grant he has started to listen to working people

Literally support class snobbery or the papers i don't like won't like it. Extend this little tactical annexe into the future. What the fuck is this utter naive nonsense. The ragss are calling your fucking tune here and you've even used their weapons.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is why you're a hack, a liability and liar - all in one sentence.

Oh yeah, a pretentious wanker as well. A casually red.

Steady on!!!

 

[J Ed]

This is getting North Korean

 

[Pickman's model]

This is getting North Korean

wait for the highlight of the evening when we feed articul8 to some dogs. that's when it really will be north korean.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

This is getting North Korean

You say that as if it's a bad thing comrade; have you considered the benefits of re-education?

Cheers - Louis (Kim something or other) MacNeice

 

[articul8]

Hold the line - flags and houses and vans are racist

i Never said that, nor did she - in any case, you think the Sun is genuinely outraged at class snobbery ??! You're a joke if so

 

[Pickman's model]

You say that as if it's a bad thing comrade; have you considered the benefits of re-education?

Cheers - Louis (Kim something or other) MacNeice

kim il macni

 

[ViolentPanda]

Whereas Ed merely humiliated a homeless woman with his 2p without flags nor a van to her name.

If you buy the story that he gave her 2p, anyway. The repro quality and blow-up of the newspaper image made it pretty indistinct.

Facepalm stupidity for a lawyer to put someone's home and number plate up on Twitter, but let's also not overdo it on the victim here. He had three flags up on the day the English nationalists rode to victory. It's not outside of credibility to suggest he might have been joining in as these were street facing and anything in the street is public. FTAOD Thornberry should not have done it, but the hysterical response to it was an own goal, one Ed will live to regret. Disloyalty isn't liked by anyone.

Of course it's not outside of credibility.
That Thornberry appears, in most interpretations, to have made an automatic assumption about what was being signified, is the issue at hand, though, and what it reveals about her perspective on a section of the population her party purports to represent.

A sensible answer would have been to take the issue on truthfully. Actually, yes, we have been a divided nation. The England flag has often been a mistrusted symbol, including by people within the Labour Party who wish to include all working class people in our project. But this is wrong, we should all be proud of where we come from, which is why I have discussed the matter firmly with Emily (And implied trouser trembling bollocking). But more importantly it reminds us why we oppose UKIP who seek to make flag waving and national loyalties a devisive and destructive force once more. We do not play those games. Now fuck off.

As I was saying earlier, there's a world of difference in what the St George signifies now, compared to what it used to signify, such that making an automatic assumption that it is shorthand for "nationalist lives here" is pretty much intellectually lazy, if not intellectually bankrupt. Miliband appears to understand this, where Thornberry (and articul8) appear to have missed it.

 

[Coolfonz]

It is perfectly clear - they will only grant that he has started to listen and respect working class people if they were to go hard on benefits, immigrants and criminals.

It's not that though. It is 20ish years of Labour deliberately not talking to 'traditional working class' people, instead courting the middle/centre-right ground who swing elections.
Then Milliband comes out with what do you think when you see a white van outside a house, he says "respect". Which just sounds fucking weird.
It is the ability to sit in a room full of Ukip voters and maybe win them over, at least charm them, at least some of them. Labour won't even come in the room, it can't even open the door, it can't even hold the door handle its hands are so greased with sleaze and power, it can't (insert door/handle analogy here)...

 

[Pickman's model]

It's not that though. It is 20ish years of Labour deliberately not talking to 'traditional working class' people, instead courting the middle/centre-right ground who swing elections.
Then Milliband comes out with what do you think when you see a white van outside a house, he says "respect". Which just sounds fucking weird.
It is the ability to sit in a room full of Ukip voters and maybe win them over, at least charm them, at least some of them. Labour won't even come in the room, it can't even open the door, it can't even hold the door handle its hands are so greased with sleaze and power, it can't (insert door/handle analogy here)...

nothing suitable for a family website leaps to mind.

 

[ViolentPanda]

VP - l'll condescend to you , you daft twat, but the rest is bollocks

I'll keep this simple for you.
You support the Labour Party. The Labour Party is constructed around the acceptance of a political structure which operates to facilitate top-down political diktat.
That same party has, within the last generation, removed all mechanisms that allowed the membership a say in the direction of the party - it's not democratic in any real sense of the word, and neither are those who operate within it. Their course is one which has taken the party quite far into policy being decided by small cliques, and then imposed on the membership, and on the UK.
That same party has never been revolutionary, it has always been reformist or, applicable to the post-Smith years, ameliorationist.

That makes you a reformist top-downer, or what is known as a "Fabian".