Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I was wondering how his time in the Commons would play out. I mean, he was pretty much in the pay of the Kremlin and is an Assadist. A supporter of foreign powers etc.
Rochdale by-election
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PTK
Paul Kegan
The vote share declined by 85%. 7.7 is 15% of 51.6.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Yes, there has been a poll, and most people said that they supported a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip war.
Silas Loom
Man with glasses
As does Labour. Their motion calling for a ceasefire was passed unopposed, on a rather bad tempered day in the Commons.
The motion had caveats about Hamas suspending hostilities, but if the pollsters drilled down to that level of detail, of course they would get similar answers from the majority.
The other thing that polling shows is that Gaza is not a particularly important issue for most people.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I''m sure that's true but it is a truly gigantic leap from there to it will affect how they vote in a GE especially when there are other issues like the NHS, high interest rates, the state of the economy and the simple utter incompetence of the current Govt to take into consideration.
Besides as I have pointed out before most people realise that no matter how horrified they are by events in Gaza it really does not matter what anyone in this country inside or outside of Westminster thinks about it.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Pedantic point: 77,000 electorate, 39% turnout and he got 39%. So, technically, his vote could have entirely Muslim voters, who are 30% of the electorate. Less pedantically, yes, certainly got some/a lot of non-Muslim voters and I'll be really interested to see the breakdown if and when it emerges. I think Labour will also, very apprehensively, be waiting to see the same. This was a shitshow of an election and all sorts could have voted Ba'athist, for all sorts of reasons. The thing Labour will be terrified of is if a very large % of the Muslim population voted that way. That's the thing that could be repeated elsewhere.
That's all a bit essentialist, talking about Muslim's as a moveable voting bloc. I don't think and people vote for all kinds of reasons. However, you've really fucked up if you create a situation where a previously loyal demographic does turn against you en masse.
PTK
Paul Kegan
It does matter that the UK is actively assisting the crimes against humanity taking place in the Gaza Strip. The UK is not a powerless obscure state like the Republic of Mongolia.
If people are concerned about the defunding of publice services, then there is not much point in them voting for the Labour Party, for it has made it clear that it will not undo the savage cuts of the past 14 years. The main argument for voting Labour is that a fresh government may be less corrupt and more competant.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
What's wrong with not wanting to congratulate a Racist grifter?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That could only come from exit or post-exit polling, no?
PTK
Paul Kegan
In theory, the state can match up the ballot papers with the names on the electoral roll, and discover how every voter voted. They could guess from some of the names if the voters were Muslims.
I don't think that the state will bother to do this.
As you say, the determination would have to come from opinion poll sampling.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I'm encouraged that you've now moved from a default position of advocating that people do nothing about the horrors of Gaza as it doesn't matter what they do , to one where they shouldn't even be thinking about the horrors of Gaza because it doesn't matter what they think.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Well sort of. The thing is Labour's offer on the NHS etc etc is pretty piss poor. If that wasn't the case I think you'd be right but where they are currently they're polling well (mostly due to the Tories' incompetence) but must be aware that most of that support is pretty weak. You might not lose more than a few enthused voters over Gaza but you can definitely lose reluctant ones.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I think Gaza is a bigger issue than many people think it is - sure, it won't be the main issue in a general election, but if serious atrocities are committed during the campaign it could sway enough people into not voting Labour to have an impact. I've always been someone who has been a bit dismissive of people on the left who bang on about Palestine, it's never been my thing at all, and I was really frustrated about how the issue wrecked the Corbyn movement - but I am fucking beside myself about it now. I just cannot believe the stuff I am seeing day after day, the open calls for genocidal action amongst Israeli politicians, the complete hypocrisy and lies of our Westminster circus. And of course what the UK does makes a difference, we have a seat on the security council and supply arms, and if we were lined up with South Africa at the ICJ that would without a doubt help strengthen the cause. Given that Labour appear to be offering me absolutely zero in terms of domestic policies why wouldn't I decide to vote with my conscience on an international issue?
I was wondering about a name?
I'm on the same page here. Never really understood the fixation on Palestine that a lot of the left has, but what is happening there is unconscionable.
The figure of 30,000 killed is surely a massive underestimate - 30k killed directly by weapons but what about all the excess deaths from hunger, exposure, disease, lack of medical care? Hunger is being deliberately used as a weapon of terror so hunger related deaths are murders, not incidental or indirect consequences.
Opportunities to use your vote to shift the thinking of a major political party on a particular issue are few and far between. Voting for Galloway in Rochdale was one of them combined with the protest movement. I think the prospect of losing a large swathe of their vote over Gaza is concentrating their minds. Labour are still shit but so much less overt about it than five months ago.
Not that I think voting for Galloway was a good idea as I've outlined. But the idea that it was a pointless vote is very strange.
Not that I think voting for Galloway was a good idea as I've outlined. But the idea that it was a pointless vote is very strange.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
Yes - strongly suspect we will see Labour's tone shift markedly on Gaza in the next few months. MPs in seats with similar demographics will be going apeshit today. Those who were bright enough to have the finger on the pulse of their constituency like Jess Phillips are hugely strengthened by this vote.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Azhar Ali?
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I'm not advocating people do nothing never have, it's just that I don't think they will achieve anything. If people want to try then greatest respect for them but it still won't change anything. So long as the US continues to offer pretty much unconditional support to Israel (which a President with limited support in Congress during an election year will continue to do) then it does not matter what the UK Govt says or does.
And what it will say and do is largely toe the American line because as far as the UK's political establishment is concerned maintaining the UK's solidarity with the US is more important than the number of dead Palestinians or grumbling amongst its own population especially when there is plenty of evidence that said grumbling is far from universal. This is the invasion of Iraq all over again.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
I was just thinking of his "You're not a Celt like me comment"
He's a bigot and a bully and has been since I first came across in the mid- eighties.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
You clearly have never had dealings with the cunt.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Is that because he's likely to appeal to your mate, Putin?
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
There. Fixed that for you.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I see Sunak has done exactly as I predicted.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
You win the thread
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