Rochdale by-election

[Wilf]

How long before we see Galloway on question time. It's only for a few months and besides he might ruffle the odd feather in the commons, goodness knows it's needed.

I was wondering how his time in the Commons would play out. I mean, he was pretty much in the pay of the Kremlin and is an Assadist. A supporter of foreign powers etc.

 

[PTK]

Vote share.

The vote share declined by 85%. 7.7 is 15% of 51.6.

 

[PTK]

Is that true? Has there been a poll?

Only most people I know are not really following or paying attention to it, they have more pressing issues in their lives.

Yes, there has been a poll, and most people said that they supported a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip war.

 

[Silas Loom]

Yes, there has been a poll, and most people said that they supported a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip war.

As does Labour. Their motion calling for a ceasefire was passed unopposed, on a rather bad tempered day in the Commons.

The motion had caveats about Hamas suspending hostilities, but if the pollsters drilled down to that level of detail, of course they would get similar answers from the majority.

The other thing that polling shows is that Gaza is not a particularly important issue for most people.

 

[MickiQ]

Yes, there has been a poll, and most people said that they supported a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip war.

I''m sure that's true but it is a truly gigantic leap from there to it will affect how they vote in a GE especially when there are other issues like the NHS, high interest rates, the state of the economy and the simple utter incompetence of the current Govt to take into consideration.
Besides as I have pointed out before most people realise that no matter how horrified they are by events in Gaza it really does not matter what anyone in this country inside or outside of Westminster thinks about it.

 

[Wilf]

Yeah agree, badly worded on my part. Also Galloway clearly won more than the Muslim vote in Rochdale.

Pedantic point: 77,000 electorate, 39% turnout and he got 39%. So, technically, his vote could have entirely Muslim voters, who are 30% of the electorate. Less pedantically, yes, certainly got some/a lot of non-Muslim voters and I'll be really interested to see the breakdown if and when it emerges. I think Labour will also, very apprehensively, be waiting to see the same. This was a shitshow of an election and all sorts could have voted Ba'athist, for all sorts of reasons. The thing Labour will be terrified of is if a very large % of the Muslim population voted that way. That's the thing that could be repeated elsewhere.

That's all a bit essentialist, talking about Muslim's as a moveable voting bloc. I don't think and people vote for all kinds of reasons. However, you've really fucked up if you create a situation where a previously loyal demographic does turn against you en masse.

 

[PTK]

I''m sure that's true but it is a truly gigantic leap from there to it will affect how they vote in a GE especially when there are other issues like the NHS, high interest rates, the state of the economy and the simple utter incompetence of the current Govt to take into consideration.
Besides as I have pointed out before most people realise that no matter how horrified they are by events in Gaza it really does not matter what anyone in this country inside or outside of Westminster thinks about it.

It does matter that the UK is actively assisting the crimes against humanity taking place in the Gaza Strip. The UK is not a powerless obscure state like the Republic of Mongolia.

If people are concerned about the defunding of publice services, then there is not much point in them voting for the Labour Party, for it has made it clear that it will not undo the savage cuts of the past 14 years. The main argument for voting Labour is that a fresh government may be less corrupt and more competant.

 

[tim]

Classy

What's wrong with not wanting to congratulate a Racist grifter?

 

[brogdale]

Less pedantically, yes, certainly got some/a lot of non-Muslim voters and I'll be really interested to see the breakdown if and when it emerges.

That could only come from exit or post-exit polling, no?

 

[PTK]

That could only come from exit or post-exit polling, no?

In theory, the state can match up the ballot papers with the names on the electoral roll, and discover how every voter voted. They could guess from some of the names if the voters were Muslims.
I don't think that the state will bother to do this.
As you say, the determination would have to come from opinion poll sampling.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In theory, the state can match up the ballot papers with the names on the electoral roll, and discover how every voter voted. They could guess from some of the names if the voters were Muslims.
I don't think that the state will bother to do this.
As you say, the determination would have to come from opinion poll sampling.

Um no. They could discover who voted but not how they voted. Your name isn't on the ballot paper.

 

[two sheds]

If there was no Labour candidate, then the Labour vote must hav declined by 100%.

I thought there was a Labour candidate on the voting slip. That there was no Labour candidate is pure negligence on their part.

 

[The39thStep]

I''m sure that's true but it is a truly gigantic leap from there to it will affect how they vote in a GE especially when there are other issues like the NHS, high interest rates, the state of the economy and the simple utter incompetence of the current Govt to take into consideration.
Besides as I have pointed out before most people realise that no matter how horrified they are by events in Gaza it really does not matter what anyone in this country inside or outside of Westminster thinks about it.

I'm encouraged that you've now moved from a default position of advocating that people do nothing about the horrors of Gaza as it doesn't matter what they do , to one where they shouldn't even be thinking about the horrors of Gaza because it doesn't matter what they think.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I''m sure that's true but it is a truly gigantic leap from there to it will affect how they vote in a GE especially when there are other issues like the NHS, high interest rates, the state of the economy and the simple utter incompetence of the current Govt to take into consideration.

Well sort of. The thing is Labour's offer on the NHS etc etc is pretty piss poor. If that wasn't the case I think you'd be right but where they are currently they're polling well (mostly due to the Tories' incompetence) but must be aware that most of that support is pretty weak. You might not lose more than a few enthused voters over Gaza but you can definitely lose reluctant ones.

 

[lazythursday]

I think Gaza is a bigger issue than many people think it is - sure, it won't be the main issue in a general election, but if serious atrocities are committed during the campaign it could sway enough people into not voting Labour to have an impact. I've always been someone who has been a bit dismissive of people on the left who bang on about Palestine, it's never been my thing at all, and I was really frustrated about how the issue wrecked the Corbyn movement - but I am fucking beside myself about it now. I just cannot believe the stuff I am seeing day after day, the open calls for genocidal action amongst Israeli politicians, the complete hypocrisy and lies of our Westminster circus. And of course what the UK does makes a difference, we have a seat on the security council and supply arms, and if we were lined up with South Africa at the ICJ that would without a doubt help strengthen the cause. Given that Labour appear to be offering me absolutely zero in terms of domestic policies why wouldn't I decide to vote with my conscience on an international issue?

 

[Dandred]

The one on the ballot papers that went out as PVs and were issued in the polling stations?

I was wondering about a name?

 

[Rimbaud]

I think Gaza is a bigger issue than many people think it is - sure, it won't be the main issue in a general election, but if serious atrocities are committed during the campaign it could sway enough people into not voting Labour to have an impact. I've always been someone who has been a bit dismissive of people on the left who bang on about Palestine, it's never been my thing at all, and I was really frustrated about how the issue wrecked the Corbyn movement - but I am fucking beside myself about it now. I just cannot believe the stuff I am seeing day after day, the open calls for genocidal action amongst Israeli politicians, the complete hypocrisy and lies of our Westminster circus. And of course what the UK does makes a difference, we have a seat on the security council and supply arms, and if we were lined up with South Africa at the ICJ that would without a doubt help strengthen the cause. Given that Labour appear to be offering me absolutely zero in terms of domestic policies why wouldn't I decide to vote with my conscience on an international issue?

I'm on the same page here. Never really understood the fixation on Palestine that a lot of the left has, but what is happening there is unconscionable.

The figure of 30,000 killed is surely a massive underestimate - 30k killed directly by weapons but what about all the excess deaths from hunger, exposure, disease, lack of medical care? Hunger is being deliberately used as a weapon of terror so hunger related deaths are murders, not incidental or indirect consequences.

 

[Knotted]

Opportunities to use your vote to shift the thinking of a major political party on a particular issue are few and far between. Voting for Galloway in Rochdale was one of them combined with the protest movement. I think the prospect of losing a large swathe of their vote over Gaza is concentrating their minds. Labour are still shit but so much less overt about it than five months ago.

Not that I think voting for Galloway was a good idea as I've outlined. But the idea that it was a pointless vote is very strange.

 

[lazythursday]

Opportunities to use your vote to shift the thinking of a major political party on a particular issue are few and far between. Voting for Galloway in Rochdale was one of them combined with the protest movement. I think the prospect of losing a large swathe of their vote over Gaza is concentrating their minds. Labour are still shit but so much less overt about it than five months ago.

Not that I think voting for Galloway was a good idea as I've outlined. But the idea that it was a pointless vote is very strange.

Yes - strongly suspect we will see Labour's tone shift markedly on Gaza in the next few months. MPs in seats with similar demographics will be going apeshit today. Those who were bright enough to have the finger on the pulse of their constituency like Jess Phillips are hugely strengthened by this vote.

 

[brogdale]

I was wondering about a name?

Azhar Ali?

 

[TopCat]

I laughed when I heard he got forty percent of the vote and won. All these accusations of Galloway being vile etc? He is a politician. A floating shit in a stinking sewer. No worse than most. Far better than many.

 

[_Russ_]

What's wrong with not wanting to congratulate a Racist grifter?

Being Anti Israel isn't Racism any more than being Anti Iran .....Bigots though tend to not accept this

 

[MickiQ]

I'm encouraged that you've now moved from a default position of advocating that people do nothing about the horrors of Gaza as it doesn't matter what they do , to one where they shouldn't even be thinking about the horrors of Gaza because it doesn't matter what they think.

I'm not advocating people do nothing never have, it's just that I don't think they will achieve anything. If people want to try then greatest respect for them but it still won't change anything. So long as the US continues to offer pretty much unconditional support to Israel (which a President with limited support in Congress during an election year will continue to do) then it does not matter what the UK Govt says or does.
And what it will say and do is largely toe the American line because as far as the UK's political establishment is concerned maintaining the UK's solidarity with the US is more important than the number of dead Palestinians or grumbling amongst its own population especially when there is plenty of evidence that said grumbling is far from universal. This is the invasion of Iraq all over again.

 

[tim]

Being Anti Israel isn't Racism any more than being Anti Iran .....Bigots though tend to not accept this

I was just thinking of his "You're not a Celt like me comment"

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/george-galloways-youre-not-a-celt-like-me-comment-to-humza-yousaf-was-disgraceful-and-appalling-scotsman-comment-3171032

He's a bigot and a bully and has been since I first came across in the mid- eighties.

 

[tim]

I laughed when I heard he got forty percent of the vote and won. All these accusations of Galloway being vile etc? He is a politician. A floating shit in a stinking sewer. No worse than most. Far better than many.

You clearly have never had dealings with the cunt.

 

[BusLanes]

Having had run ins with his twitter account over the years and followed it for years can confirm Galloway is a massive xunt.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I laughed when I heard he got forty percent of the vote and won. All these accusations of Galloway being vile etc? He is a politician. A floating shit in a stinking sewer. No worse than most. Far better than many.

Is that because he's likely to appeal to your mate, Putin?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

The Guardian should send Helen Pidd , their ‘northern open water swimming and city cycling correspondent , to Rochdale to patiently explain where it’s all going wrong and why Rochdale needs a branch of Waitrose.

There. Fixed that for you.

 

[lazythursday]

My prediction: Galloway will win, and rather than this being viewed as people democratically making a protest about the government and Labour's actions on Gaza, it will be taken as further evidence of the terrifying danger to democracy of an Islamic mob.

I see Sunak has done exactly as I predicted.

 

[Serge Forward]

I see Sunak has done exactly as I predicted.

You win the thread