Refusal of work and the immigration debate

[Gmart]

Immigrants work harder coz the money they earn will go further in their own countries.

The 'native' workers don't work so hard coz they know that the money they would get, wouldn't pay for enough in their homeland.

Also why work when you're not going towards a decent future? The immigrants are sending money home to create a good future for themselves. In the UK, there's no point. May as well just go out and get pissed, coz there's not much else to do...

 

[durruti02]

Immigrants work harder coz the money they earn will go further in their own countries.

The 'native' workers don't work so hard coz they know that the money they would get, wouldn't pay for enough in their homeland.

Also why work when you're not going towards a decent future? The immigrants are sending money home to create a good future for themselves. In the UK, there's no point. May as well just go out and get pissed, coz there's not much else to do...

nice summary for UKinc'07

 

[nino_savatte]

i do not assert that and i would indeed be bollox!

i do assert that a significnat number of the w/c and particularly youth are 'refusing' the cheap labourt that is on offer and that the bosses are so keen to bring in migrants to do .. you have come up with nothing to contradict this or explain it

how else do you explain bosses importing labour yet millions unemployed?

Yawn, haven't you got any other angles? Once again, you crap on about "migrants" and "cheap labour" but I am not convinced that you know what you're talking about. No one "imports" labour and that is pretty typical of your histrionic style.

 

[durruti02]

Yawn, haven't you got any other angles? Once again, you crap on about "migrants" and "cheap labour" but I am not convinced that you know what you're talking about. No one "imports" labour and that is pretty typical of your histrionic style.

what ignorent nonsense .. it is quite clear many many firms and companies and industries 'import' labour from Gate Gourmet to Irish Ferries to the Bernard Mathews and the rest of the agricultural industry to the disgusting poaching that is endemic in Health care etc etc etc

FFS do you ever bother to read anything that the bosses produce?? the CBI the IOD etc and all neo liberal commentators are forever wanking on about how great it has been importing labour in the last few years to do the work our class will not do for the shite money the bosses offer

that is what this thread is about

THAT IN A PERIOD WITH C.3MILLION UNEMPLOYED AND 8 MILLION ECONOMICALLY INACTIVE WHY THEN DO WE SEE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION

this is a major political phenomenum of our time and your ignorent dismissal of my attempt at creating debating on this is tiresome and very very sad

 

[nino_savatte]

what ignorent nonsense .. it is quite clear many many firms and companies and industries 'import' labour from Gate Gourmet to Irish Ferries to the Bernard Mathews and the rest of the agricultural industry to the disgusting poaching that is endemic in Health care etc etc etc

FFS do you ever bother to read anything that the bosses produce?? the CBI the IOD etc and all neo liberal commentators are forever wanking on about how great it has been importing labour in the last few years to do the work our class will not do for the shite money the bosses offer

that is what this thread is about

THAT IN A PERIOD WITH C.3MILLION UNEMPLOYED AND 8 MILLION ECONOMICALLY INACTIVE WHY THEN DO WE SEE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION

this is a major political phenomenum of our time and your ignorent dismissal of my attempt at creating debating on this is tiresome and very very sad

If you aren't lying, you're being a fucking drama queen. Grow up.

All you can do is chuck around dramatic sounding phrases. Have you ever considered a career in propaganda?

 

[tarannau]

Fucking hell Durrutti, do you ever get off this one-trick shirehorse. You're obsessed.

You talk about migrants moving over to do the shit/lower paid jobs as if it's a new phenomenon, cunningly dreamed in covert meetings up Digby Jones and the twats at the CBI. But for as long as I can remember migrants have been coming here to do exactly that, not least in the hospitality and public transport trades.

Either way and your constant fixation with immigration makes it totally pointelss to engage in debate with you. All you keep harking on about is immigration, which isn't at the root of Britain's uncompetitive and often underskilled workforce problems.

 

[Gmart]

THAT IN A PERIOD WITH C.3MILLION UNEMPLOYED AND 8 MILLION ECONOMICALLY INACTIVE WHY THEN DO WE SEE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF IMMIGRATION

Because we are rich and they are poor, so they move to the rich areas. Pretty natural really and anyone who believes in freedom would support it. To control it you would have to discriminate on the basis of race, which is something most people have a distaste for...

 

[durruti02]

Because we are rich and they are poor, so they move to the rich areas. Pretty natural really and anyone who believes in freedom would support it. To control it you would have to discriminate on the basis of race, which is something most people have a distaste for...

so you seem to ignored the fact that there are millions of comparatively poor people in this country without work

and no migration is controlled on the availability of work NOT borders/controls

 

[durruti02]

If you aren't lying, you're being a fucking drama queen. Grow up.

All you can do is chuck around dramatic sounding phrases. Have you ever considered a career in propaganda?

so you are ignoring my response? typical .. e.g. you claim no one is importing cheap labour .. i show they are .. you ignore that and instead call me a drama queen! LOL how predictable

 

[nino_savatte]

so you are ignoring my response? typical .. e.g. you claim no one is importing cheap labour .. i show they are .. you ignore that and instead call me a drama queen! LOL how predictable

No, I'm ridiculing your obsession. There's a difference.

You are a drama queen: you shout and scream, then you call for certain posters to be banned. You can say a lot of things about me but i don't demand that posters (even you) be banned because I don't like what they say.

 

[durruti02]

Fucking hell Durrutti, do you ever get off this one-trick shirehorse. You're obsessed.

You talk about migrants moving over to do the shit/lower paid jobs as if it's a new phenomenon, cunningly dreamed in covert meetings up Digby Jones and the twats at the CBI. But for as long as I can remember migrants have been coming here to do exactly that, not least in the hospitality and public transport trades.

Either way and your constant fixation with immigration makes it totally pointelss to engage in debate with you. All you keep harking on about is immigration, which isn't at the root of Britain's uncompetitive and often underskilled workforce problems.

obsessed tannau only in that it is a major issue that the left are ignoring and the BNP are making hay over .. is that really wrong??

no it is not a new phenomenum but the rates have dramatuically increased .. you do notseem tounderstand this .. our friend MC% posted a report the other day sayingh it is the biggest immigration for many hundreds of years

i agree with you absolutely immigration is not at the ROOT of our problems ( i have never said otherwise) .. it is neo liberalism/capitalism that is ( as i have always said) .. immigration however lets the bosses/state get away with actually having to invest in trasining and skills .. no??

why dio you think we have migration with so many unemployed??

 

[durruti02]

No, I'm ridiculing your obsession. There's a difference.

You are a drama queen: you shout and scream, then you call for certain posters to be banned. You can say a lot of things about me but i don't demand that posters (even you) be banned because I don't like what they say.

try ridiculing my 'obsession' by disproving my pov for a change instead of insulting

p.s. i replied to you about importing cheap labour .. try to answer my reply

 

[nino_savatte]

Once again, you continue to equate (or conflate) opposition to the anti-immigration position as "playing into the hands of the BNP" But this is an Orwellian twist of logic that even George W Bush would be envious of. if one were to ask what one actually means by that statement, the response is likely to be as badly thought out as the initial statement itself.

 

[Urbanblues]

There will ALWAYS be low skilled work which EVERYONE can do.

This is not entirely the case; there will ALWAYS be work which SOME PEOPLE can't do.

 

[bluestreak]

This is not entirely the case; there will ALWAYS be work which SOME PEOPLE can't do.

Not at all true, a few lies on the CV and even I can be sitting here surfing from a hospital, waiting to perform an operation

 

[nino_savatte]

try ridiculing my 'obsession' by disproving my pov for a change instead of insulting

p.s. i replied to you about importing cheap labour .. try to answer my reply

You make the mistake of thinking that you actually have a point to make and that the point is unique and has been thought through.

Again, you repeat the same histrionic line about "importing cheap labour". It's tabloidesque scaremongering at its very worst.

 

[tarannau]

It's not cheap labour to the immigrants though is it?

So what do you want then Durrutti? - to pull up the drawbridge and fail to acknowledge that we gain from a global core and periphery model - our low cost of living is only achieved by shafting someone else with very low wages. Isn't it fair that the UK should share some of these lower waged roles that outr rampant commercialism here causes, or isn't that cricket somehow.

Or you want to try and artificially prop up failing industries that can't really compete in favour of some kind of dubious bogus full employment policy for natives born in union jack underpants. That's surely as doomed to failure as the British car industry.

Immigrants aren't solely in demand because they're cheap. It's often because they're hard working, flexible and not so status orientated, qualities that are often lacking in the local workforce for some reason. It's been the same story for generations and it pains me to see the same thinly-justified anti-immigrant sentiments here again and again, wrapped up as some new problem that Brits must deal with again,

 

[durruti02]

It's not cheap labour to the immigrants though is it?

So what do you want then Durrutti? - to pull up the drawbridge and fail to acknowledge that we gain from a global core and periphery model - our low cost of living is only achieved by shafting someone else with very low wages. Isn't it fair that the UK should share some of these lower waged roles that outr rampant commercialism here causes, or isn't that cricket somehow.

Or you want to try and artificially prop up failing industries that can't really compete in favour of some kind of dubious bogus full employment policy for natives born in union jack underpants. That's surely as doomed to failure as the British car industry.

Immigrants aren't solely in demand because they're cheap. It's often because they're hard working, flexible and not so status orientated, qualities that are often lacking in the local workforce for some reason. It's been the same story for generations and it pains me to see the same thinly-justified anti-immigrant sentiments here again and again, wrapped up as some new problem that Brits must deal with again,

you talk like an empoyer mate .. i am and i am thinking like a worker .. i do not dispute in any way how good hard working etc etc most immigrnats are nor do i dispute their right to want ot move or come and work here .. for me it is about asserting the rights of ordinary people where they live in the here and now .. and tbh we will not improve the lives of all of us UNTIL we get back some poewr here and now

.. anyway this thread is NOT to do with that .. it is about WHY we have a massively increased rate of immigration in a period (unlike the 5ts 6ts when we had no unempolyment) when we have massive unemployment

 

[nino_savatte]

No unemployment in the 50's and 60's? Are you sure about that?

 

[tarannau]

you talk like an empoyer mate .. i am and i am thinking like a worker .. i do not dispute in any way how good hard working etc etc most immigrnats are nor do i dispute their right to want ot move or come and work here .. for me it is about asserting the rights of ordinary people where they live in the here and now .. and tbh we will not improve the lives of all of us UNTIL we get back some poewr here and now

.. anyway this thread is NOT to do with that .. it is about WHY we have a massively increased rate of immigration in a period (unlike the 5ts 6ts when we had no unempolyment) when we have massive unemployment

Wrong you simplistic, patronising arse.. I'm an employee, albeit a realistic one.

Love the way you contrast 'immigrnats' (sic) with 'ordinary people' by the way. You may not think you're racist, but your facile insular thinking and language betrays you again

 

[durruti02]

No unemployment in the 50's and 60's? Are you sure about that?

er yes .. from the late 5ts thru the 6ts till the early 7ts we had very low unemployment ..

 

[durruti02]

Wrong you simplistic, patronising arse.. I'm an employee, albeit a realistic one.

Love the way you contrast 'immigrnats' (sic) with 'ordinary people' by the way. You may not think you're racist, but your facile insular thinking and language betrays you again

qoute "Immigrants aren't solely in demand because they're cheap. It's often because they're hard working, flexible and not so status orientated, qualities that are often lacking in the local workforce for some reason." .. this sounds like a boss to me .. apolgies that you are not ..

racist?? no mate .. as on the other thread it seems you free marketeers end up with racial employment practices

 

[tarannau]

You seem happy to keep tagging me 'liberal' 'employer' and now 'free marketeer' based on no evidence at all.

You are a fucking joke. And you have the temerity to suggest that other people aren't reading your facile, jaw-droppingly repetitive contributions properly.

 

[durruti02]

You seem happy to keep tagging me 'liberal' 'employer' and now 'free marketeer' based on no evidence at all.

You are a fucking joke. And you have the temerity to suggest that other people aren't reading your facile, jaw-droppingly repetitive contributions properly.

i qouted somethng (112)you wrote (107)that is what employers state on this issue .. i then apologised ( maybe not clearly enough ) for having you wrong .. i did not know that you were not an employer .. i thus apologise clearly for mistaking you for an emplyer

 

[audiotech]

er yes .. from the late 5ts thru the 6ts till the early 7ts we had very low unemployment ..

We? Nationalist, one nation capitalist.

 

[nino_savatte]

er yes .. from the late 5ts thru the 6ts till the early 7ts we had very low unemployment ..

You don't sound too sure and you have even added the word "low" to the word "unemployment". In those days, it was blacks and Asians that got it in the neck from your fellow anti-immigrationists.

 

[nino_savatte]

qoute "Immigrants aren't solely in demand because they're cheap. It's often because they're hard working, flexible and not so status orientated, qualities that are often lacking in the local workforce for some reason." .. this sounds like a boss to me .. apolgies that you are not ..

racist?? no mate .. as on the other thread it seems you free marketeers end up with racial employment practices

Another example of your dishonesty: rather than reply to tarannau in a civilised fashion, you have to finish with a dig; you label him a "free marketeer" and then proceed to tell him that he supports " racial employment practices".

What is your major malfunction?

 

[Lock&Light]

You can say a lot of things about me but i don't demand that posters (even you) be banned because I don't like what they say.

That's simply untrue.

 

[nino_savatte]

If you aren't projecting, you're lying.

 

[Lock&Light]

If you aren't projecting, you're lying.

I can provide a number of quotes of you asking for someone to be banned.