Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
The bit in bold is meaningless. What you’re really saying is “people like me don’t want to be inconvenienced”.
Petition to request parliament review LTNs
- Thread starter ianarmstrong
- Start date
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Cycling is scientifically better for your knees than walking. Probably the only better thing is swimming
ianarmstrong
Active Member
It might be meaningless to you but delays to people trying to work will inevitably end up costing the consumer or person they are providing a service for
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You need to face up to the fact that any car journey is wrecking the planet. It's not harmless.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Only a fifth of the traffic on roads is for work.
A third of all journeys are less than 2k - how many of those could be walked?
ianarmstrong
Active Member
I had to have a meniscus repair in both knees after the muscle wasted away when a broken foot kept me out of action for two months - the surgeon said think of yourself as an elite athlete at the end of their career and get the budgie smugglers out and start swimming!
ianarmstrong
Active Member
It would be good if we had some real data about how many of those journeys could realistically be completed by active travel as currently it's just guesswork and even if someone could walk or cycle there are often valid reasons why they might not and for some if they could not use their vehicle they probably would not make the journey at all and there are various negative implications for that too
Leafster
.
I wasn't denying that current car use is excessive or that something should be done encourage active travel and improve public transport. It was just a case of IF you needed a car then I don't think a hydrogen fuel cell one is a viable alternative to an EV.
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liquidindian
Hello
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Making it harder to drive is a feature not a bug.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Just today I have been working with a primary care practice in Birmingham, where we have setup a cycle hub which GPs can refer patients to in order for them to access cycle training, led rides and get free bikes. The idea that you have to be young, fit and healthy to use a bike is not just wrong but quite frankly dangerous as it puts people off cycling despite the major health benefits that come from it. Today we went on a 5 mile led cycle ride, the four patients who came ranged in age from mid 20s to mid 60s and they all have health problems.
We've absolutely transformed and saved lives with the work we've done over the past few years with the NHS in Birmingham, especially with diabetic / pre-diabetic patients, and with elderly patients. The people we work with are, by definition, not fit or healthy and they are mostly not young either. (We also very regularly get patients with knee problems referred to us as cycling or swimming are the only forms of exercise they can be recommended to do)
Yes there are some people whose disabilities preclude cycling or walking, but there are also people with disabilities for whom a bike or adapted bike is a fantastic mobility aid. Case in point today, one of the volunteer ride leaders rides an electric trike. He can't walk more than a few hundred meters without issues most days but he can ride his e-trike for 5 miles quite happily, and uses it to go to the shops, see friends or whatever all the time. Cycling transformed his life and that's why he now volunteers to help others who want to take the same journey.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
The only people that would be interested in getting that data would be "active travel academics" who of course cannot be trusted with such data.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
This is so not true. All you need to do is cross the road into the next LTN. You can get off and push if you like. Lambeth have already installed a bike and pedestrian crossing point on Leigham Court Road for example to facilitate movement from Streatham hill LTN into the planned Streatham Wells LTN. And vice versa
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
There are not too many employers inside LTNs, that's the issue.
Apart from the odd corner shop or school, which of course it's great if people will walk/cycle to.
For me anything under 2 miles I'll happily walk, cycling would be a game changer for journeys 2-5 miles, but to get that distance I would need to use main roads/boundary roads.
Apart from the odd corner shop or school, which of course it's great if people will walk/cycle to.
For me anything under 2 miles I'll happily walk, cycling would be a game changer for journeys 2-5 miles, but to get that distance I would need to use main roads/boundary roads.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
Lot's of things might be wrecking the planet but the UK is responsible for just 1% of the harmful emissions and I drive a ULEZ compliant vehicle with a stop/start feature which switches off the ignition when I am not moving so I am doing what I can whilst working to minimise emissions
ianarmstrong
Active Member
If we got the data then we would at least have a true picture of which journeys where feasible and reasonable and appropriate for people to switch to active travel or PT as currently it seems we know which journeys are of a certain length and there is an assumption that they all could and should be switched to active travel or PT but in reality there might be any number of reasons why that switch was not feasible and reasonable and appropriate
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Flawed data, most of our carbon is generated for us by other countries and rarely admitted that US and UK life’s rely on others making and doing work for us
ianarmstrong
Active Member
For you maybe but for the average punter in the street they probably don't understand that
Great work and of course you do not need to be young, fit and healthy to be able to cycle but you need a certain level of those things so I would support all the things you and your NHS trust are doing and that should be expanded to others but wide area 24/7 LTNs that increase mileage, congestion and pollution cause more problems than they solve in my opinion which is why I think a review is needed.
maomao
普費斯
Tell your passengers to walk then.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
I'd agree that our consumption is causing more CO2 to be generated in other locations and we need to stop buying so much stuff off of the internet and having it shipped over here from places like China but we were talking here about LTNs and my car use and the impact that has on the harmful emissions being generated in the UK so they are two different topics
maomao
普費斯
It's not two different topics when he's analysing and criticising data you've just quoted.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
Many of my passengers are hospital workers being taken home in the early hours to the other parts of London. I often pick up disabled people and people taking cats/dogs to emergency vet appointments. I regularly pick up passengers with lots of shopping at supermarkets that they could not carry home. I also pick up people going out for leisure activities who are dressed up and do not want to travel on PT or walk or cycle with their nice cloths on. I also take vulnerable females home late at night and people who are a danger to themselves with the amount of alcohol they have consumed. There are also people going to airports with a number of suitcases. Why should I tell all of these people to walk and put myself out of work?
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
(I just read this post back and it sounds quite argumentative, so please don't take it personally! I'm arguing for something, not neccesarily against you!)
Absolutely true. Short distance trips in familiar areas can "LTN-hop" quite well.
But for ian's commuting example, the "bike lanes and back streets" version of the Streatham-City route looks like this, where
red: normal road with through traffic
purple : LTN or restricted access road
orange: intermittent or unsegregated "bike lane"
green: actually segregated bike lane
(images quoted for page length sanity)
Full of turns, junctions, varying surfaces and sharing space with road vehicles. Easy to get lost, and constantly varying levels of vigilance required.
I used the word "adventurous" deliberately, because this is an intimidating thing to do for the first time.
I know this route well, and used to ride it often. but it took me weeks to learn it properly. When to turn, where traffic is nasty etc.
A similar length route from Pendrecht to the centre of Rotterdam by contrast:
Consistent (in terms of design, priority, road surface, signage etc.) and 100% segregated as soon as you leave your neighbourhood.
You can set off on a journey like this, without even knowing the correct route, and be confident that you'll never get into trouble.
The London equivalent should (and could) be just as good.
I see more and more cyclists all the time, which is great, but we're still a tiny fraction of road traffic. There's a long way to go before the majority of the population cycles, and Dutch levels of infrastructure are required to get there.
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sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Nobody is saying this. What i am saying is that a third of car journeys are under 2k and a good proportion of those could be walked or cycled.
By no means are all of those car journeys necessary.
ianarmstrong
Active Member
It is and it's nothing to do with me - one is emissions generated by the UK into the atmosphere and the other is consumption based emissions generated in other countries as a result of our consumption - you should not mix the two together to vilify car drivers as the main culprit as we are all consumers and you don't have to own a car to be a consumer causing consumption emissions and it is distinctly possible that someone without a car could be causing more harmful emissions to be generated due to their lifestyle and the amount of consumption based emissions they are generating
ianarmstrong
Active Member
I'm just asking for data to confirm how many could be switched based on what is feasible, appropriate and reasonable for the person or persons involved
maomao
普費斯
You said the UK is responsible for less than 1% of emissions. He explained why that was nonsense. It was your evidence. If it'd itrelevant you should apologise for bringing it up.
maomao
普費斯
Who decides what's reasonable?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Feasible, appropriate and reasonable are not measurable things, so how on earth could someone get those stats?
Cat Fan
Cats and stats
Yes, and also just to add that I think this route has significant elevation gain. Would you agree? Cycling up and down Denmark hill/Herne hill is quite tiring for the amateur cyclist.
The "flattest" route via central Brixton is a major road that is scary even to drive on let alone cycle. This is what happens when roads are designed for cars/buses.
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