Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Yep.
People of Merthyr give Ian Duncan Smith a reality check
- Thread starter Jeff Robinson
- Start date
Yep.
And where does that profit come from?
And how do people have the money to buy the things? To put things in terms akin to your "take 20% tax and use it to pay their wages", how come people can buy things then companies take some money out from this and then still pay the people enough to buy those things?
How can everything be OK if it's all private companies making a profit but when exactly the same system is nationalised, it suddenly isn't viable? It's the same system, only with less leakage!
Plumdaff
joy in people
So your solution for the guy with MS and the woman with the family in that film is rot, because you aren't able to leave?
Tory policy, essentially?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I didn't say they were-I said they should do
The reality of the situation is that few are going to be moving anywhere, and no government is going to be capable of creating the kind of employment that's needed due to being wedded to the same economic dogma that the financial institutions and oligarchs that finance their political parties-and ultimately control them-subscribe to.Eventually the welfare state itself will be a distant memory.
Your kids are going to be living in a very different, diminished kind of society, where to thrive, or even survive, they're going to have to seek favours from strong and influential contacts.
Your kids are going to be living in a very different, diminished kind of society, where to thrive, or even survive, they're going to have to seek favours from strong and influential contacts.
dennisr
the acceptable face
lets hope they come in and undercut thus taking your job mate
Most of know the kind of thing that should be done-the problem is, the chances of most of it being enacted are around zero.
I'm not sure there's even a word for that kind of prejudice.
There's actually an interesting debate to be had here, if you can refrain from personal attacks. Why should someone continue fighting a war that they believe to be lost? I can see the arguments on both sides.
But I don't think you, or people like you, can. I think your politics left the realm of reality some time ago.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
You are an ex-pat and a cock. What do you disagree with?
dennisr
the acceptable face
cockist
I think they're fucked. What do you think?
dennisr
the acceptable face
thats the 'new-realist' solution
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Haven't we just done this?
1989 to be precise.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I don't know
Which industries would you nationalize that would be profit making and why can the public sector succeed in doing this in places like Merthyr when the private sector can't. These are genuine questions by the way, I'm not just being awkward.
Of course not. What you've just done is written some proposals on a message board without saying who will enact them or how.
No, it isn't going to happen. And people aren't going to -- aren't able to -- leave. Which means that the outcome will be a downward spiral that leaves the people in these town ever more bereft of most things that should be their birthright. OK? Things are hopeless, we get that.
Doesn't mean we can't talk about what should be done. Because if there is one way to absolutely guarantee nothing ever improves, it's to not even bother trying to work out what the best options should be.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
The spokesman of the defeated
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Funny how the people who are so big on suggesting that people from employment dead zones should move to greener pastures are so often to be heard spitting fire about people from, say, Poland doing exactly the same thing.
Don't be so daft. It's the kind of question anybody would ask. How do you see your proposals coming about?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
"can't is the cancer of happen"
Proper Tidy
Arsed
You know what I will say already, so what is the point?
This is the point. Anyone with an ounce of perception can see that you (and I) are speaking the truth here.
I think even a blinkered, ignorant fool like Proper Tidy could see that. And yet he refuses to draw what any sensible person would recognize as the obvious conclusions. He takes refuge instead in the weird, moralistic recriminations of a complacent martyr.
I'm fast becoming convinced that such politics are pathological.
Yes, yes-which is all very well when nobody can convincingly answer the question.
I don't know
Which industries would you nationalize that would be profit making and why can the public sector succeed in doing this in places like Merthyr when the private sector can't. These are genuine questions by the way, I'm not just being awkward.
The key is to not take your eye off the ball. Capitalism is a very cunning game of chase-the-lady. Somewhere along the line, you are duped into thinking you should be looking for the profit rather than the value. But profit is just one way of measuring value -- and a damned crude way at that.
In short, companies aren't able to pay people because they make a profit. No, it's the exact opposite way round -- they make a profit because they pay people... but don't pay them as much as they take from them.
Money derives from value, not profit. Added value, to be precise -- you take something, you expend some effort on it and the result has more value than it had before. That can equally apply to health and education as to the manufacture of widgets.
dennisr
the acceptable face
It probably the politics of envy
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