And what are you saying is the answer?
People of Merthyr give Ian Duncan Smith a reality check
- Thread starter Jeff Robinson
- Start date
And what are you saying is the answer?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
By creating public sector jobs. Specifically, creating jobs improving infrastructure, services and industry. You know, useful public works.
And banning overtime whilst enforcing a 35 hour working week with no loss of pay.
Basically the opposite of what this government is doing.
Of course they have. The ones who haven't are on the dole, in-and-out of prison, or at best in crap, temporary jobs. They wish they'd left.
There are already plenty of places as bad as this right across Europe. Expect many more as the West suffers unavoidable and irreversible economic and social decline and consumer capitalism runs up against natural limits.
Eventually people will look for 'stong leaders.' Eventually we'll have war.
Eventually people will look for 'stong leaders.' Eventually we'll have war.
It might possibly be an answer for specific individuals, phil, to allow them to personally improve their own lot. But it isn't remotely the blanket answer to the problem of mass unemployment across vast swathes of the UK. You're asking literally millions of people to leave whole areas as ghost towns and somehow resettle in what is already one of the most densely populated areas of the UK, where you expect there will magically be jobs for them to justify their move. It just isn't a remotely reaslistic policy.
But surely even a delusional tinpoint revolutionary fantasist such as yourself you can see that this is not going to happen?
Right or wrong? So I don't know what you imagine you're achieving by telling everyone to stay in Merthyr.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
You know that the public sector already accounts for something like 25 out of every 100 jobs in UK. How many jobs do you think it would be safe to create in the public sector and how much tax would be required to pay for it?
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
They've only got themselves to blame.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
And where should hey go?
Moving isn't feasible for minimum wage jobs with no security, and often these days on zero hour contracts. People move, they lose their job, they are back where they started but with more debt (if they can even borrow enough to move in the first place) and without the support structure - you know, family, friends - available to them in their home communities. And if they have kids...
I thought you were a red Phil? Seems you have bought the 'I'm alright Jack' bullshit hook, line and sinker. Knob.
It isn't, particularly as the future promises stringent immigration controls, if not, in some countries, outright bans (which will, of course, fail to work due to the strains on poorer societies that are coming, resulting in chaos and vastly intensified racial tensions.)
editor
hiraethified
Where might all these jobs be that are waiting for the unskilled and generally desperately poor folks of Merthyr, Phil?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
And also pumping money into industry/the economy,in other ways
And who exactly is going to do this?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Funnily enough Wetwipe, if more people were in work there would be more tax. Incredible I know.
100/100.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Hmmm.....so you pay them from taxation, then take 20% to 30% of it back to pay their wages.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
Plumdaff
joy in people
They're in London and the South East, sillies! Those of us already living here know there's no issue with employment, low pay or trying find housing already! Come to Lambeth, Newham or Tower Hamlets, lands of plenty! Maybe try Brighton or Hastings, the streets are paved with skilled jobs and gold!
FFS.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Much better to just fuck off to Turkey and live the life of an over-privileged bohemian cunt whilst preaching at the poor, innit.
Ex-pat cock.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Perhaps they should move en-masse to China.
I'm curious to know what you think money is, where it comes from and why a closed economy that includes a private sector is somehow more viable than a closed economy that excludes a private sector.
But mass unemployment in selected areas of the UK is not a problem for your governments. It is their solution to the problem of labor militancy. As such it is not going anywhere fast.
I'm not expecting "millions" of people to move. In fact I was referring specifically to the people in this film, and thinking especially of the girls who made it. Ambitious and able people like them could make a fine lives for themselves somewhere other than South Wales.
I'd give you ten-to-one that they won't be living in Merthyr five years from now.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Or if the Tories have their way, drop the minimum wage so low that we can compete with China.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.....so you pay them from taxation, then take 20% to 30% of it back to pay their wages.
What am I missing?
How do you think private companies are able to generate the money to pay wages?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Tsk, didnt you get the memo Proper Tidy. For the new caring, compassionate tory vermin it's "get on the bus". Even if that bus journy is at 5:30am, won't get you to the destination on time and there are no jobs at the destination anyway. As Liam Fox says "we don't have a moral duty to help those who won't help themselves". If the people of Merthyr can't even be bothered to do the impossible then they deserve to die.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
By selling things at a profit.
It's not going to be fixed by all those people moving elsewhere though.
Bully for those few individuals. What about everybody else in Merthyr?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Hmmm.....so you pay them from taxation, then take 20% to 30% of it back to pay their wages.
What am I missing?
You are missing:
Increased spending
Increased productivity
Increased industry
Increased exports
Increased domestic market
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Hmmm.....so you pay them from taxation, then take 20% to 30% of it back to pay their wages.
What am I missing?
Labour theory of value, I think
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Creating jobs quickly would mean, IMO, creating jobs that won't last. Like we see with Bosch mentioned above, any company fickle enough to be lured in with bribes (bribes which may come at the expense of the pay and conditions of the workforce) will be lured away again just as easily.
It's going to take a long time to create an economy which is not dependant on multinationals, not dependant on the retail and service sectors but which is based on the (horribly old-fashioned) concept of creating things which have value. With most of the country living hand-to-mouth or terrified of losing their job or both there's no scope for the innovation and enterprise which governments always bang on about. We are told to aspire to greatness one moment and then told we can work 60 hours a week at ASDA or die in the gutter the next.
Work is good for you, but only if it has a purpose. Working in a dead end job for a company that does nothing but sell imported shite at a 90% mark up and doesn't give a fuck whether you live or die is not good for you. Maybe there are people in this country who genuinely don't want to work, and can you blame them? Anyone would think from the rhetoric surrounding unemployment that once you're in a job you'll be treated with dignity and respect. Fat fucking chance, as soon as the balance sheet says so you're back on the scrapheap.
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