People getting racially abused because of the referendum result

[HoratioCuthbert]

No it didn't.

Im struggling to cut and paste phone buggered but look back and it said lexiters knew and had to admit that we'd voted for these consequences but thought they were worth it- not true. No one knew. Could only predict.

 

[Pickman's model]

i meant the sheer scale of attacks wasn't predicted, it tended to be more worries about a boost for ukip. The post seemed to imply we voted for exactly this.

Tbh many of the reported occurrences seem to be incidents of foul and abusive language rather than assaults. I always understood a racist attack to be an assault with racial motives rather than racist abuse: although the effects on someone from abuse can be similar to assault e.g. reluctance to go out. Both serious, neither to be taken lightly, but rather than conflate the two perhaps they should be counted separately.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I think i shall eject from the chat, i don't want to add Tory leverage against Syrian refugees either, so let's take on the racists here with fists if necessary and I'm sorry it's come to this.

 

[Anju]

Well I voted remain, but plenty of the 'leave merchants' have denied sympathies with Farage and his ilk.

You accusing absolutely nailed-on anti-fascists of being "in bed" with the far right is as unproductive as it is untrue.

A far better position to come from is to ask if the pursuit of their aims warrant the the unintended advancement that their votes have given others.

They'll still argue with you but at least you won't be calling anti-racists, racists; which is stupid.

The issue for me is that I am not politically literate but I saw this coming a while ago. I find it hard to believe that people who are very politically aware did not see it. If they did see it and ignored it then that is unacceptable, to put others in danger of harm for your own political gain. If they did see it and now deny that I don't even know how to describe them.

I am a reggae music fan and have taken a few non racist friends to dances or concerts. Sometimes the level of discomfort they have shown has made me believe that they do hold some deep seated racist fears. Saying you are not racist whilst holding some racist anxieties deep down is not uncommon. This was what I initially said was going on with two posters when they agreed with an article that proposed racism was somehow justified for people who felt disenfranchised. The only people I know of who would agree that racism can have some justification are those who have some racist thoughts and feel guilty about that.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

The issue for me is that I am not politically literate but I saw this coming a while ago. I find it hard to believe that people who are very politically aware did not see it. If they did see it and ignored it then that is unacceptable, to put others in danger of harm for your own political gain. If they did see it and now deny that I don't even know how to describe them.

I am a reggae music fan and have taken a few non racist friends to dances or concerts. Sometimes the level of discomfort they have shown has made me believe that they do hold some deep seated racist fears. Saying you are not racist whilst holding some racist anxieties deep down is not uncommon. This was what I initially said was going on with two posters when they agreed with an article that proposed racism was somehow justified for people who felt disenfranchised. The only people I know of who would agree that racism can have some justification are those who have some racist thoughts and feel guilty about that.

If they are anything like me they ain't gonna move themselves to dance unless rum has been teen.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

If they are anything like me they ain't gonna move themselves to dance unless rum has been teen.

But everyone here appears to aware of racism, where they differ is tactically.

 

[Anju]

If they are anything like me they ain't gonna move themselves to dance unless rum has been teen.

Rum before leafing home, rum en route, and rum in the dance. Of course.

 

[Pickman's model]

The only people I know of who would agree that racism can have some justification are those who have some racist thoughts and feel guilty about that.

What about people who have racist thoughts and don't feel guilty about it?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

This was what I initially said was going on with two posters when they agreed with an article that proposed racism was somehow justified for people who felt disenfranchised

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Noone has done this, ffs.

 

[Anju]

What about people who have racist thoughts and don't feel guilty about it?

I'm sure you know.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm sure you know.

I only know what you say on this subject

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Rum before leafing home, rum en route, and rum in the dance. Of course.

thats how it's done

 

[Anju]

I only know what you say you know on this subject.

They are happy racists.

 

[smokedout]

The issue for me is that I am not politically literate but I saw this coming a while ago. I find it hard to believe that people who are very politically aware did not see it. If they did see it and ignored it then that is unacceptable, to put others in danger of harm for your own political gain. If they did see it and now deny that I don't even know how to describe them.

You're asking people to have predicted the future. I might have predicted the result of a very close Remain victory would have been a huge upswing in organised far right activity, real gains in parliament for UKIP, and quite possibly organised racists launching physical attacks after abandoning any electroral route and going back to the streets - as they are already in many cases. Of course this might not have happened either, but these wankers didn't just appear over the weekend, that's one thing we do know, and the racism both campaigns stoked up was unlikely to dissipate whatever the result. I haven't noticed you condemning the racism on the Remain side by the way, the competitive toughness on immigration, the migrant's benefit cuts, the crowing that Brexit might even increase migration - that all played a part as well.

I'd say the point is how we stop it, not how we use it to score points and say I told you so.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yup, is it worth it?
Is an increase in racist attacks collateral damage?

These people didn't all magically turn racist on friday morning. The white liberal consensus that racism is no longer a real problem in the UK has taken a beating, and it needed one.

Remember when Ed Miliband was bullied into apologising for the number of Polish people the Blair/Brown government 'let in' to the UK? You had a leader of a major party adressing the nation, telling everyone that hundreds of thousands of people who have come here and built lives for themselves and who can hear him speaking, that allowing those lives to be lived in our country was a mistake. If that kind of shit is allowed to fly, if both the nation's major parties can shake hands on the idea that we've got too many immigrants, then why is anyone surprised that public attitudes reflect that?

 

[SpookyFrank]

If I were a conspiraloon type I might suggest that the tories had created UKIP as a sock puppet to drag the debate on immigration and integration rightwards while simultaneously making themselves look like they're on the reasonable side of things. They're not. The tories preside over a racist state, they use racist rhetoric and they have enacted overtly racist policies.

UKIP is a red herring. The tories run the government, ultimate culpability lies with them and with Labour for being little better while they were in power.

 

[Anju]

You're asking people to have predicted the future. I might have predicted the result of a very close Remain victory would have been a huge upswing in organised far right activity, real gains in parliament for UKIP, and quite possibly organised racists launching physical attacks after abandoning any electroral route and going back to the streets - as they are already in many cases. Of course this might not have happened either, but these wankers didn't just appear over the weekend, that's one thing we do know, and the racism both campaigns stoked up was unlikely to dissipate whatever the result. I haven't noticed you condemning the racism on the Remain side by the way, the competitive toughness on immigration, the migrant's benefit cuts, the crowing that Brexit might even increase migration - that all played a part as well.

I'd say the point is how we stop it, not how we use it to score points and say I told you so.

I

You're asking people to have predicted the future. I might have predicted the result of a very close Remain victory would have been a huge upswing in organised far right activity, real gains in parliament for UKIP, and quite possibly organised racists launching physical attacks after abandoning any electroral route and going back to the streets - as they are already in many cases. Of course this might not have happened either, but these wankers didn't just appear over the weekend, that's one thing we do know, and the racism both campaigns stoked up was unlikely to dissipate whatever the result. I haven't noticed you condemning the racism on the Remain side by the way, the competitive toughness on immigration, the migrant's benefit cuts, the crowing that Brexit might even increase migration - that all played a part as well.

I'd say the point is how we stop it, not how we use it to score points and say I told you so.

I see your point. I did not really look at the remain campaign as that was my instinctive choice. At this point I am just sad that we live in a country where politicians use immigration and race to attract votes, and that it works.

 

[phildwyer]

Fucking doing it again you dodgy cunt. What are you in China for anyway? Buying a wife you infected prick?

Your vile abuse reflects only on yourself, and your disgracefully racist presuppositions. I'd be quiet now if I were you.

 

[phildwyer]

Yup, is it worth it?
Is an increase in racist attacks collateral damage?

I'd be wary of jumping to the conclusion that the increase in racist incidents has been caused by the Leave vote. I suspect it would have been even worse had the vote been Remain.

But anyway, there's no way of knowing. One thing that does seem certain though: any attempt to renege on or circumvent the result will cause a great deal of fury among the knuckleheads.

 

[The39thStep]

I


I see your point. I did not really look at the remain campaign as that was my instinctive choice. At this point I am just sad that we live in a country where politicians use immigration and race to attract votes, and that it works.

Actually it works just as well in the EU countries

 

[Lurdan]

Did anyone mention that most of the initial lurid press headlines spring from a police report that reported crimes in the days following the Referendum result had gone up 57%.

The figures came from True Vision a police-funded website where the public reports hate crimes. In four heated days the reports rose from 54 (corresponding days the previous year) to 85. In a population of 60+ million.

Just to put things in perspective.

That would be a very interesting point if it were correct. But it isn't.

The press stories reporting this '57% rise' appeared on Monday. The first press reports of abuse linked to the outcome of the referendum appeared on Sunday. They were based on the same reports on social media which had led to this thread being started early on Saturday morning.

 

[The39thStep]

That would be a very interesting point if it were correct. But it isn't.

The press stories reporting this '57% rise' appeared on Monday. The first press reports of abuse linked to the outcome of the referendum appeared on Sunday. They were based on the same reports on social media which had led to this thread being started early on Saturday morning.

Where has this 57% figure come from ?

 

[Lurdan]

Where has this 57% figure come from ?

Stories like this one
Hate crime reports are up 57 per cent after the Brexit vote

It is an entirely meaningless statistic.

 

[Cid]

Tbh many of the reported occurrences seem to be incidents of foul and abusive language rather than assaults. I always understood a racist attack to be an assault with racial motives rather than racist abuse: although the effects on someone from abuse can be similar to assault e.g. reluctance to go out. Both serious, neither to be taken lightly, but rather than conflate the two perhaps they should be counted separately.

Assault need not actually involve attacking someone:

"An assault is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force." (CPS)

I'm not quite sure that's what you're arguing around, but certainly the criminal offence can be committed without physical contact.

 

[ska invita]

Im struggling to cut and paste phone buggered but look back and it said lexiters knew and had to admit that we'd voted for these consequences but thought they were worth it- not true. No one knew. Could only predict.

EDIT - deleting my post - im tired out. I dont trust what im saying right now...maybe later

 

[The39thStep]

Stories like this one
Hate crime reports are up 57 per cent after the Brexit vote

It is an entirely meaningless statistic.

So your disagreement isn't the figures and their source but that the media first got their story from social media and later the figures from True Vidion?

 

[coley]

Hi all,
I was a little shocked yesterday to discover that some people think there is an excuse for racism, even here on Urban, that there are people that think violence is an acceptable reaction to what is happening at the moment.

Leave voters, you supported a cause and campaign of which Nigel Farrage and his supporters were a major part. Last year he defended a UKIP MP who used the word chinky. You knew you were colluding with racists. Where was the campaign to eject him and his followers 17,000,000 of you just let this happen and many of you knew the potential consequences.

The same thing is happening in America. Liberal commentators are excusing or denying the racism of the Trump campaign. This is not how to harm the establishment, or whatever you want to call the people who rule.

Here are a few definitions of what you are.

What do you call someone who bends reality to come up with plausible sounding reasons to accept or deflect the racist behaviour in others? Is it an associate-racist, a racist's apprentice, or maybe just "a racist"? This is also someone who uses his or her verbal and analytical skills to spin the facts so that they turn in the opposite direction. The victims become the poor white people.

If you think that things the majority of a race consider to be racist towards them are not in fact racist towards them... you might be are apologist for racism.

If your arguments, rhetoric and positions mirror uncannily those deployed by people you know very well are racist you are an apologist for racism.

If you support a cause, and your instinctive response to widespread complaints that many within that cause are circulating racist ideas is not, 'We'd better get those racist ideas and the people who hold them the hell away from our cause, or they'll make us look like a bunch of racists,' but, 'Stop trying to undermine our good and just cause with your spurious accusations; we'll tell you what is and isn't racist'... you are apologist for racism.

If a defender of your cause goes onto national television and says something so obnoxious and wrong-headed that pretty much the entire country's jaw drops in a collective bout of 'WTF?!, and instead of hurling yourself and your cause in the opposite direction, you busy yourself trying to contextualise the supposed nuances of this utterance with reference to sociological, philosophical or political theory. You are an apologist for racism.

At least admit to yourselves what you have done, who you really are and start caring for people other than yourself.

I now think I understand what 'virtues signalling' is.
Now if someone can explain 'intersectionalist' ?
Ta.

 

[coley]

Yes our government has done terrible things but I will admit I am ashamed that we went to war in Iraq, bombed Syria, sold arms to Saudi Arabia and other countries, that we are complicit in the murder of innocent men, women and children. Leave voters should at least admit that they have had an impact on making racism more acceptable in this country. Or would you rather stick your head in the sand because your personal feelings are more important.

Our govt? Well the one we have is Shyte, but it recommended remain, the previous ones, labour and the coalition ones were both in favour of 'remain'
All of these administrations were guilty of your charges of getting involved in dubious wars, selling arms etc etc, plus pushing a neoliberal austerity regime, yet you seem to be trying to connect these actions with Brexit?
Someone suggested you move your argument to a different thread! May I suggest a different dimension?

 

[coley]

I strongly disagree that the Leave vote has made racism more acceptable. As I mentioned on another thread, I and many others voted Leave because we want to see more immigration, not less.

You should be wary of accepting the liberal media's caricature of Leave voters.

I would add to that, many of us leavers were totally disgusted by the EUs eagerness to erect fences and policies In order to stop refugees entering the EU, and paying (and bribing) Turkey to act as a 'holding pen' for said refugees,
I have never been a fan of the EU, but it has become a very dark and sinister institution since the EURO debacle, willing and eager to smash and dominate the weak in order to protect the elitist core.

 

[Ax^]

is the new right wing Tory goverment going to change any of this aside from getting us out of Europe..