People getting racially abused because of the referendum result

[Anju]

See, you are actually doing what that prick, andysays, accused me of doing the other day.

People who voted leave may have unwillingly contributed to the Farage cause as a by-product of the vote they casted, but that's a long way from "being in bed with [him]" which would require that they shared his politics or desired end-game.

I will rephrase that. Nigel got into the bed but you didn't push him out. The next day Nigel is telling everyone you got down and dirty with him. If you don't deny it people are going to assume you are together. Im pretty sure you would make it public that you did not and would not get it together.Apologies if you find the imagery disturbing.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Fucking doing it again you dodgy cunt. What are you in China for anyway? Buying a wife you infected prick?

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

 

[Pickman's model]

I will rephrase that. Nigel got into the bed but you didn't push him out. The next day Nigel is telling everyone you got down and dirty with him. If you don't deny it people are going to assume you are together. Im pretty sure you would make it public that you did not and would not get it together.Apologies if you find the imagery disturbing.

You clearly think Nigel credible

 

[Sirena]

Did anyone mention that most of the initial lurid press headlines spring from a police report that reported crimes in the days following the Referendum result had gone up 57%.

The figures came from True Vision a police-funded website where the public reports hate crimes. In four heated days the reports rose from 54 (corresponding days the previous year) to 85. In a population of 60+ million.

Just to put things in perspective.

 

[editor]

I posted this elsewhere too but for it to be happening in Stockwell is particularly depressing

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Did anyone mention that most of the initial lurid press headlines spring from a police report that reported crimes in the days following the Referendum result had gone up 57%.

The figures came from True Vision a police-funded website where the public reports hate crimes. In four heated days the reports rose from 54 (corresponding days the previous year) to 85. In a population of 60+ million.

Just to put things in perspective.

That's a good point. However, I take reports on here far more seriously. When I combine them with my own experience seeing increased tensions/dirty looks around where I live, that starts to build a very worrying picture. Low-level stuff that rarely gets reported, so far.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I will rephrase that. Nigel got into the bed but you didn't push him out. The next day Nigel is telling everyone you got down and dirty with him. If you don't deny it people are going to assume you are together. Im pretty sure you would make it public that you did not and would not get it together.Apologies if you find the imagery disturbing.

We don't have a platform. Don't shout at us for not having a platform. Stand with us, we all want the same thing- more the merrier and the stronger right?

 

[Spymaster]

I will rephrase that. Nigel got into the bed but you didn't push him out. The next day Nigel is telling everyone you got down and dirty with him. If you don't deny it people are going to assume you are together.

Well I voted remain, but plenty of the 'leave merchants' have denied sympathies with Farage and his ilk.

You accusing absolutely nailed-on anti-fascists of being "in bed" with the far right is as unproductive as it is untrue.

A far better position to come from is to ask if the pursuit of their aims warrant the the unintended advancement that their votes have given others.

They'll still argue with you but at least you won't be calling anti-racists, racists; which is stupid.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yup, is it worth it?
Is an increase in racist attacks collateral damage?

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yup, is it worth it?
Is an increase in racist attacks collateral damage?

These divisions have been festering for some time- last year when I organised refugee stuff got all sorts like "if there's a terrorist attack hope these do gooders get hit first" what emboldened them?

Anti immigrant sentiment being centre of media all year was enough to cause problems whatever the result.

If we were to sit on our hands it might not rock the boat but it doesn't mean the problems have dissapeared..... Nobody has straight answers but can we not just come together tackle the problems instead of moaning at people for trying to address the underlying causes.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

These divisions have been festering for some time-

Yes they have. And in the last five days they have become a great deal worse.

We don't have an alternative history to prove this, but I suspect that 'whatever the result' isn't right. This result has made things worse.

 

[Spymaster]

These divisions have been festering for some time- last year when I organised refugee stuff got all sorts like "if there's a terrorist attack hope these do gooders get hit first" what emboldened them?

Anti immigrant sentiment being centre of media all year was enough to cause problems whatever the result.

If we were to sit on our hands it might not rock the boat but it doesn't mean the problems have dissapeared..... Nobody has straight answers but can we not just come together tackle the problems instead of moaning at people for trying to address the underlying causes.

Anything that existed before as a vague notion has now been magnified. People that thought they may have sympathised with some far right views have now had any doubt removed.

Foreigners are certainly feeling that the country has lurched to the right.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

..

 

[Pickman's model]

Anything that existed before has now been magnified. People that thought they may have sympathised with some far right views have now had any doubt removed.

The country has lurched to the right, whichever way you look at it.

A lurch legitimised for those receptive to such messages by a range of 'respectable' politicians eg hoey, stuart lining up alongside the likes of the racists farage and johnson, elevating sentiments previously kept private into opinions people could say with scant danger of objection or vilification. We've come a long and sad way from the first woman racist on tram video of a year or three back

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Anything that existed before as a vague notion has now been magnified. People that thought they may have sympathised with some far right views have now had any doubt removed.

The country has lurched to the right, whichever way you look at it.

As and example, the racist Nigel Farage stands in the European Parliament at centre stage and makes a speech in which he purports confidently to represent Britain. That speech then goes straight onto the BBC front page. Anyone who thought a leave vote would see a neutering of Farage and UKIP was very very badly mistaken, unfortunately.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The country has lurched to the right, whichever way you look at it.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The racists have become louder for sure, but not greater in number. This may sound like nitpicking for anyone feeling the effect of it, but there are different implications. Basically, it means we can force the racists to slither back under the rock they came from by being robust in our response as a society. It's not a growing far-right movement, and its not the country as a while making a 'lurch to the right'. The problem shouldn't be understated, of course, but neither are we on the verge of an English Reich.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Listen, you're right it has. But there's no point pushing this on those of us who are against it. Point made! We are all sensitive enough that we feel sickened by this.


I don't think this helps on an England wide context - but I'll offer it in case it does- but in Orkney last year people were really playing up the minority racist comments, like going on and on and on about them. I found that counterproductive because I was the person having to give a statement to the paper a week later, my response was to amplify the hundreds that were absolutely fucking amazing in terms of help getting aid from places to my house and support. I stressed that the racists didn't represent the majority.

Guess what? Fucking quitened down after that. Absolutely challenge the cunts when you see them but don't give them the air time.

Fair dos, and you're right, they don't. This is a thread about racist attacks though, and it's hard not to feel pretty fucked off at the moment about that.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Fair dos, and you're right, they don't. This is a thread about racist attacks though, and it's hard not to feel pretty fucked off at the moment about that.

I know I'm trying to help is all. I'm losing sleep over it genuinely, not trying to play it down

 

[butchersapron]

Fair dos, and you're right, they don't. This is a thread about racist attacks though, and it's hard not to feel pretty fucked off at the moment about that.

And about smearing people as violent racist misogynists

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I know I'm trying to help is all. I'm losing sleep over it genuinely, not trying to play it down

props to you for what you did.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

And about smearing people as violent racist misogynists

Dinnae fash. Je suis butchersapron

 

[ska invita]

Yup, is it worth it?
Is an increase in racist attacks collateral damage?

Thats exactly what they are - non-white english people, and migrants specifically, are both the punch bag and collateral damage of the campaign and of Exit.

Whats happening was predicted loud and clear and was obvious for all to see. Normally invoking Hitler in an argument is seen as taking it comedically too far, but when Yanis Varoufakis was talking about the return of the 1930s it was no joke at all, and it still isnt. The brave thing for Lexiters to do would be to admit that is the case but that they decided it was worth it for grander strategic reasons and the overall good.

I understand why no-one wants to say that in public. Some of what's been said instead i've found embarrassing, disingenuous and insulting, but I cant bring myself to get into it with anyone, right now at least. I'd like to come back to it though.

And as to the 57% rise on some shit police website no-one has ever heard of (54 reports up to 85 lol) being any kind of benchmark, of course its not a 57% rise in reality.... Its off the scale compared to normal, and of a very particular tone.

Some good news - I have heard of two local residents groups in North London areas that are setting up support networks - going around to shop keepers and the like and giving out a phone number for if something happens and generally trying to act supportive and let people know the community is behind them and wont tolerate this. A great move, and exactly what is needed - costs nothing and is replicable across the country.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Thats exactly what they are - non-white english people, and migrants specifically, are both the punch bag and collateral damage of the campaign and of Exit.

Whats happening was predicted loud and clear and was obvious for all to see. Normally invoking Hitler in an argument is seen as taking it comedically too far, but when Yanis Varoufakis was talking about the return of the 1930s it was no joke at all, and it still isnt. The brave thing for Lexiters to do would be to admit that is the case but that they decided it was worth it for grander strategic reasons and the overall good.

I understand why no-one wants to say that in public. Some of what's been said instead i've found embarrassing, disingenuous and insulting, but I cant bring myself to get into it with anyone, right now at least. I'd like to come back to it though.

And as to the 57% rise on some shit police website no-one has ever heard of (54 reports up to 85 lol) being any kind of benchmark, of course its not a 57% rise in reality.... Its off the scale compared to normal, and of a very particular tone.

Some good news - I have heard of two local residents groups in North London areas that are setting up support networks - going around to shop keepers and the like and giving out a phone number for if something happens and generally trying to act supportive and let people know the community is behind them and wont tolerate this. A great move, and exactly what is needed - costs nothing and is replicable across the country.

I'm sorry, but neither me or you knew it would be this bad a few days after the vote. Don't pretend you did.

 

[Pickman's model]

As and example, the racist Nigel Farage stands in the European Parliament at centre stage and makes a speech in which he purports confidently to represent Britain. That speech then goes straight onto the BBC front page. Anyone who thought a leave vote would see a neutering of Farage and UKIP was very very badly mistaken, unfortunately.

Yeh anyone who expected it to happen within a week. Let's see where future elections take us and at that point you'll see where ukip are.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'm sorry, but neither me or you knew it would be this bad a few days after the vote. Don't pretend you did.

Speak for yourself. I think you will find that many people here made it absolutely clear, repeatedly, that they had concerns/fears this would happen. Probably the same people who have sensed it coming right through the whole divisive referendum campaign.

You may not have imagined it or felt it but you out of out suggesting others are pretending.

 

[Spymaster]

A lurch legitimised for those receptive to such messages..

I'm not sure I agree with this....

You are both correct and I have edited my post since your replies.

It's important to discuss things in precise terms and I was wrong, but I stand by my (now edited) comment.

Butcher's, Pilch, and LBJ, are the most scholastic lefties on these boards and they all disagree.

What hope for us thickos?

 

[Pickman's model]

You are both correct and I have edited my post since your replies.

It's important to discuss things in precise terms and I was wrong, but I stand by my (now edited) comment.

Butcher's, Pilch, and LBJ, are the most scholastic lefties on these boards and they all disagree. What hope for us thickos?

You've not heard of idiots savant then

 

[Pickman's model]

Speak for yourself. I think you will find that many people here made it absolutely clear, repeatedly, that they had concerns/fears this would happen. Probably the same people who have sensed it coming right through the whole divisive referendum campaign.

You may not have imagined it or felt it but you out of out suggesting others are pretending.

Yeh a search for 'brexit racist' turns up some posts going back to April

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Speak for yourself. I think you will find that many people here made it absolutely clear, repeatedly, that they had concerns/fears this would happen.

i meant the sheer scale of attacks wasn't predicted, it tended to be more worries about a boost for ukip. The post seemed to imply we voted for exactly this.

 

[Treacle Toes]

i meant the sheer scale of attacks wasn't predicted, it tended to be more worries about a boost for ukip. The post seemed to imply we voted for exactly this.

No it didn't.