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People getting racially abused because of the referendum result

NoXion said:
I would have voted the same. I'm not responsible for other people being racist shits.
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However, you can be involved in helping build a reaction to this shit. There was an incident in north bristol last night - as result the people i work with politically are contacting local polish groups to see what help they want right now. I know damn well the poles here can mostly look after themselves physically but some visible public support and practical help if required immediately (if you know what i mean) is probably welcome. And everyone here using it to attack leavers - make sure you do the same at the very least.
 
krtek a houby said:
Sorry; I'm not clever as you know - so I may have misread something or missed the point entirely. Please can you explain, Idris.
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My quip 'Belfast city of the future' was intended to imply that the patterns of intercommunal violence that characterised the north of Ireland from the summer of 1969 might well be imitated in the United Kingdom proper in the wake of the Leave vote.

:facepalm:
 
Idris2002 said:
My quip 'Belfast city of the future' was intended to imply that the patterns of intercommunal violence that characterised the north of Ireland from the summer of 1969 might well be imitated in the United Kingdom proper in the wake of the Leave vote.

:facepalm:
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Ah, right. I was thinking of how immigrants are routinely targetted in Belfast - that was the connection I was getting at. Thanks.
 


Close to home, that one.

We've had a lot of EDL graffiti popping up here in LS12 too, never seen that up this far (Bramley still has a few hardcore old-school fascists, seen racist graffiti on shops down at the Kirkstall end before).

I wouldn't doubt that some incidents will be exaggerated or even plain made up, given the resentment of some remainers, but there is something going on.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Aka "appeasement"
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Immigration does have a negative or suppressive effect on wages for low skilled jobs doesn't it? Is it still appesement is you're addressing specific legitimate claims?

Also, austerity...free movement of labour is one thing but not when you're also privitising, cutting funds etc....it's a gift to the right isn't it?
 
krtek a houby said:
The Manchester tram inccident is particularly ugly. Lots of sharing happening with that one.
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Part of what happens on the tram is vile. Most of what happens isn't. At the most basic level no one joins in. People challenge the racists. It is the racists who leave to taunts and ridicule.

None of this diminishes the severity of the incident but it is evidence of just how unacceptable their actions are and how people are willing to to do something about it.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
butchersapron said:
However, you can be involved in helping build a reaction to this shit. There was an incident in north bristol last night - as result the people i work with politically are contacting local polish groups to see what help they want right now. I know damn well the poles here can mostly look after themselves physically but some visible public support and practical help if required immediately (if you know what i mean) is probably welcome. And everyone here using it to attack leavers - make sure you do the same at the very least.
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So all the Polish women and children can look after themselves. All the Polish men who run their own business, cut hair, work in electronic forensics are real hard men. Very nice, I'm sure they will appreciate your support and incitement to violent action.

I thought you said that people who feel disenfranchised are allowed to be racist. It is the natural consequence for the working classes. You are a bigoted, misogynistic apologist for racism.
 
Anju said:
So all the Polish women and children can look after themselves. All the Polish men who run their own business, cut hair, work in electronic forensics are real hard men. Very nice, I'm sure they will appreciate your support and incitement to violent action.

I thought you said that people who feel disenfranchised are allowed to be racist. It is the natural consequence for the working classes. You are a bigoted, misogynistic apologist for racism.
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Link or stfu
 
butchersapron said:
Fuck yeah, those electronic forensics ones are rock.
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That was a list of what the Polish men I know do for a living. You should not be on this thread. It is not for bigoted hateful people who are actually calling for help to escalate the situation even more by trying to arrange violent confrontation (if you know what I mean). FFS take a long hard look at yourself.
 
Anju said:
So all the Polish women and children can look after themselves. All the Polish men who run their own business, cut hair, work in electronic forensics are real hard men. Very nice, I'm sure they will appreciate your support and incitement to violent action.
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Perhaps if you read the posts you might find they don't say what you believe. In addition to which I wonder what agenda you're pursuing when you say the poles should take what they're given.
 
Pickman's model said:
Red leader to Anju come in Anju
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Feeling self important? I have a child just back from school asking about her day takes priority. See below. A link to an article stating that racism is OK for the working class and people who agree. Then my pointing out the problems with that article. Also your friend called me her. I am a man and had not mentioned my gender, there was nothing in the discussion that would have warranted me talking about gender. The only reason to call me her is that I was annoying butchersapron and so they assumed I was female. There is nothing else to explain this.

killer b said:
This piece is excellent - explains the left leave position better than anything else I've read, as well as why the working class have voted so overwhelmingly to go. “I want to stop something exploitative, divisive and dishonest” — conversation with a Leaver
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butchersapron said:
Yes, he gets it. Alomost totally.

Tere is still a strong streak of paternalism in it - the w/c have lost their articulate m/c speaking for them since the since the miners strike for example - the w/c has never had problems being articulate. It has had problems in developing institutions through which those articulate voices can be adequately expressed. Either through direct attack or m/c do-gooding dominance.
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Anju said:
I just read this and I can see why the guy insists his dad is not racist, he is just xenophobic and better than the working class he claims to have some social worker type interest in.

To claim that the natural outcome of a group of people feeling disenfranchised is to run into the arms of the far right is nonsense. If you feel you are not represented you can choose how to respond. There is no excuse for racism. It is not a cry for help. Apologists for racist behaviour are only one thing. The guy actually described himself when he talked about deep seated bigots.

Then he goes on to claim that the working class can not understand or articulate what this is all about. There may be an issue with differences in the restrictive and elaborative language people use but that exists because the groups that use the different types of communication don't mix. This is self inflicted by both groups. If working class people don't understand it is because things are placed within terms of reference they are not familiar with. The writer provides a fine example of this type of pointlessly pretentious, self aggrandising, nonsense himself . "Leaving aside that this person has obviously never been to the wastelands of the Paris banlieue, that says it all, really " Can you honestly claim to have any affinity with someone who would write that.

He also manages to get across really clearly what a thoughtless nationalistic hypocrite, with no sense of responsibility to those he claims have solidarity with, he is. The guy almost boasts about how he studied in and worked all over Europe, how he is doing really well and that his wife in from outside the EU, yet he is anti immigration. Why is he not concerned with the prospects of people from other countries. Personally I find it quite uplifting, and feel proud of my country when I meet people who have come here and made their lives better. He even has the balls, and this really illustrates what a self important smug I'm alright jack c##t he is when he admits he doesn't know if leaving the EU will work, and offers no suggestions as to what could be done. He has got to be an MP if he can advocate that level of careless experimentation with people's lives, while he will be OK himself and no doubt has properties to pass on to his kids so they will remain near the top of the social pile.

Is this really what you agree with.

Now we will probably have Jeremy Hunt running against BJ, to ensure BJ wins. No viable opposition and are out of the EU which was the only thing protecting us from becoming the 51st state.
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Pickman's model said:
Perhaps if you read the posts you might find they don't say what you believe. In addition to which I wonder what agenda you're pursuing when you say the poles should take what they're given.
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I didn't say that. I just think violence on either side is wrong. The Polish people I know would not want this as a solution. For many of them violent thugs were one of the things they were trying to avoid.
 
no-no said:
Immigration does have a negative or suppressive effect on wages for low skilled jobs doesn't it? Is it still appesement is you're addressing specific legitimate claims?
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Apparently it's very marginal, but I suspect that's statistics - there's some very highly paid migrant workers in London's financial sector, footballers etc. that probably skew things a bit. It'll depend on people's personal experiences - there's certainly people doing trade jobs for less money, but then still seems to be plenty of work to go around there so I suspect 'native' sparkies etc. are still getting decent cash. If the construction industry goes down the toilet again maybe this will change.

Also, a lot of the shit minimum wage jobs are in new industries like large distribution depots or cut-price shopping chains that didn't exist 20 years ago. I'm not sure what these can be compared to, and what part immigration might have played in these jobs appearing, if any.
 
Spymaster said:
I wonder how many left exiteers would still have voted the way they did if they knew that one of the consequences of a leave win would be the massive spike in racist shit that's being detailed on this thread and elsewhere.
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Definitely a question that I, as a leave voter from the left, think is important to face up to. I don't want to respond on this particular thread though because it is too important to derail it with what might come across as 'leavesplaining'.

Maybe we can start another thread with that particular question in mind. I'm at work this evening so won't be able to get involved straight away, but it needs addressing as an issue. The left needs to be united against the racist shit going on now, and unity necessitates both Leavers and Remainers accepting each other's rationale for voting, even if we disagree.
 
no-no said:
Immigration does have a negative or suppressive effect on wages for low skilled jobs doesn't it? Is it still appesement is you're addressing specific legitimate claims?

Also, austerity...free movement of labour is one thing but not when you're also privitising, cutting funds etc....it's a gift to the right isn't it?
Click to expand...
no-no said:
Immigration does have a negative or suppressive effect on wages for low skilled jobs doesn't it? Is it still appesement is you're addressing specific legitimate claims?

Also, austerity...free movement of labour is one thing but not when you're also privitising, cutting funds etc....it's a gift to the right isn't it?
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Youve answered your own question really. The solution to attacks on pay and conditions is stronger unions, as the solution to a housing crisis is public intervention. The right create the crisis and set up the scapegoats. The irony is that the government responsible gets off the hook, which is part of the idea. I would be interested to discuss moderate migration controls from a left POV as part of a protectionist package but thats not whats on offer. Most of the people frothing about this ( i live in a high immigrant area btw, dont have consistent work, yet manage to not be bitter about it), try talking to them about housing policy, imvestmemt etc. "Lefty crap" innit, they wanna slag off foreigners. Ghis country has consistently voted for capitalism, doesnt seem to like the results, so is channeled further right. Its a pretty standard historical dynamic. Then people try to bollox whitesplain it away, make assumptions about motivation for criticising racists. The right say its pc gone mad to say racism is racist, and too many liberals and leftists have concocted that its an attack on the working class to do so.

Race hate is stoked, sustained and legitimised by the ruling class through their disinfo press, the most consistent examples being the bourgeois Mail and Express. It permeates all classes, though most of the victims are probably working class, something the whitesplainers may he forgetting.
 
Anju said:
Feeling self important? I have a child just back from school asking about her day takes priority. See below. A link to an article stating that racism is OK for the working class and people who agree. Then my pointing out the problems with that article. Also your friend called me her. I am a man and had not mentioned my gender, there was nothing in the discussion that would have warranted me talking about gender. The only reason to call me her is that I was annoying butchersapron and so they assumed I was female. There is nothing else to explain this.
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I forget to mention that the article also used the good immigrants bad immigrants argument. Butchersapron also seemed fine with that.
 
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