Leytonstone tube station "terrorist incident"?

[Batboy]

tizer tizer tizer

Taser? even?

 

[Pickman's model]

Taser? even?

no, i'm pelting you with cans of tizer

 

[Batboy]

no, i'm pelting you with cans of tizer

Could work... I'm diabetic

 

[Pickman's model]

Could work... I'm diabetic

oh. in that case i'll chuck cans of holsten pils.

 

[Batboy]

Tizer...Do they still make that shit?

 

[Batboy]

oh. in that case i'll chuck cans of holsten pils.

Could also work two cans and I'd probably be smashed....and pass out.... Maybe you are onto something. Get the police to drop their tazers and replace with alcohol. That way they could ply anyone causing trouble with booze and wait for them to pass out, then arrest them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Tizer...Do they still make that shit?

Tizer - The Great British Pop

 

[Batboy]

Tizer - The Great British Pop

No artificial flavours or colours.... hmm... blood contaminated urine and sparkling water then?

 

[Spymaster]

Most suicide bombers are spent up, screwed up and then exploited by those with the political and religious aims.

What is your evidence for this?

Suicide bombings mainly take place amongst the poorer area like markets, the rich are hardly ever affected

You're talking about a handful of them in the ME. Do you think targeting markets might have something to do with the desire to cause maximum casualties in crowded areas? The 7/7 bombings here certainly don't support your 'poor areas' theory.

Do you honestly believe that this organisation ISIS/ISIL are not trading billions of dollars of oil and it's leaders are not syphoning some off for themselves and their families? I really don't buy that.

I very much doubt it. That's not what they're about at all. There might be the odd chancer trying to skim a few quid but you wouldn't want to be him when he gets caught.

And they're not trading anything like "billions of dollars of oil".

Paris is an exception and a relatively new development. The majority of suicide bombings are in poor markets whether in Africa, Afghanistan or the Middle East. It is the poor that suffer the most despite Paris.

Couldn't we reasonably describe 911 as "suicide bombings"?

The jihadists heads are swayed by conviction of belief and a sense of adventure if they happen to have the other three elements introduced to them then they two slip into suicide bomber mode.

And of course most of the "suicide bombings" that you seem to be referring to have had nothing to do with isil.

Sorry Catboy, but I think you're mostly spouting a load of old pish on this thread.

 

[xenon]

Yeah I know, most people agree with you. Reason for me saying the other thing is that I can't think of any better way to reduce number of new recruits can you?

I think the occasional message filtering back about how shit it is, I've lost a leg or simply not hearing anything from X might serve to put off some easily influenced gjihadi wannabes. . But the idea the authorities could coopt and stage manage the rest of any returnees lives to make some kind of anti Youtube star propergander out of them seems niave to me. But more to the point, an insult to the people the jihadists have fucked over.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah I know, most people agree with you. Reason for me saying the other thing is that I can't think of any better way to reduce number of new recruits can you?

one simple way might be to offer them government assistance to get to syria. as soon as it is no longer taboo it will lose its attraction for many people.

 

[weltweit]

29 year old perpetrator will be in court this morning.

Muhaydin Mire, who is 29 and of Sansom Road, east London, is due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

frogwoman he has now been named.

 

[bimble]

one simple way might be to offer them government assistance to get to syria. as soon as it is no longer taboo it will lose its attraction for many people.

Excellent plan. Maybe you could get a little kit from your local council, one way ticket, balaclava, one roll of cheap toilet paper etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Excellent plan. Maybe you could get a little kit from your local council, one way ticket, balaclava, one roll of cheap toilet paper etc.

and the mini bus will pick you up by the station.

 

[Anudder Oik]

But (bit seriously) this is why I think the stupid teenaged twits who have gone out there & now want to come back should be allowed to return, instead of getting to be martyrs (shot for desertion or whatever):
They should be flown back and interviewed in depth about what it was really like out there, how there was no toilet paper and they had to wipe their arses with stones, how they had to kill people they had no problem with, and forced to tour schools repeating their pathetic stories forever.

Maybe they could go on a sponsored course to learn how to use powerpoint so they can show the kids at school their atrocity pics.

 

[JHE]

29 year old perpetrator will be in court this morning.

Muhaydin Mire, who is 29 and of Sansom Road, east London, is due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

That's a Leytonstone address. Think global, act local?

 

[DaveCinzano]

I know! "Just Terror", it's like a tagline for a minimalist luxury jihadi aftershave or something

Pour homocidal

 

[DaveCinzano]

That's a Leytonstone address. Think global, act local?

Or, to paraphrase the Happy Shopper slogan, "SAVE PETROL - CHOP LOCAL"

 

[Dogsauce]

it's a satirical masterpiece.

on one hand it is it treats the characters with empathy, understanding, is broad, exploratory, humanising

on the other hand it mocks the characters, rips the piss out of them, makes them into characters of ridicule rather than fear.

incredible skilled bit of film making, imo.

Morris said his inspiration for the film came from a story about a failed bomb attack intended for a US warship - the would-be assailants loaded explosives onto a boat which promptly sank under the weight. He said he pictured them standing at the quayside like idiots and wondered who broke the awkward silence.

 

[laptop]

That's a Leytonstone address. Think global, act local?

Specifically it's his nearest Tube.

Which reinforces the impression I got from the videos of his, er, competence...

 

[the button]

 

[weltweit]

It was predicted, and predictable!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I rather suspect that disenfranchisement leads to the mix of drug use and mental health problems or any other permutation of the three you choose. Most suicide bombers are spent up, screwed up and then exploited by those with the political and religious aims. Suicide bombings mainly take place amongst the poorer area like markets, the rich are hardly ever affected by these events.

Your suspicion is ill-founded. Read the book I mentioned. The guy's research is thorough, includes psychiatric and physical assessments, and draws on other research. Your contention about mental illness and drug use isn't supported by the mass of evidence gathered about suicide operations.
As for suicide bombings taking place mainly in poor areas, again your contention isn't supported by reality.

 

[bimble]

It was predicted, and predictable!

and painful to hear. And hard to find the stop button.
He probably spent some time yesterday practicing how to say bruv.

 

[bimble]

Your suspicion is ill-founded. Read the book I mentioned. The guy's research is thorough, includes psychiatric and physical assessments, and draws on other research. Your contention about mental illness and drug use isn't supported by the mass of evidence gathered about suicide operations.
As for suicide bombings taking place mainly in poor areas, again your contention isn't supported by reality.

Don't know if I can face the whole book to be honest (What's the opposite of compassion fatigue?)
Have found this article summarising his findings though ..
Myth Busting: Robert Pape on ISIS, suicide terrorism, and U.S. Foreign Policy

Is it true that his research leads to him giving them (would-be suicide attackers in general) quite a lot of credit as political agents?
Interesting that he seems to be saying here that ISIS in particular is basically a sort of nationalist movement. That would mean that making them stateless would go a long way to reducing their power & appeal.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What is your evidence for this?

There's very little. Most of the evidence that exists points the other way - that suicide operatives are sane, sober and have made a rational choice - along the lines of "I can do more damage to the enemy like this, than by firing bursts from an AK at a distant enemy" - to detonate themselves as human bombs. Plus, most are thoroughly aware that human bombs and car bombs will draw more attention/publicity than a straightforward guerilla war. There's also the fact that most suicide bombers - whether they're members of LTTE, ISIS, HAMAS or whoever - are as often secular types as they are religious zealots.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't know if I can face the whole book to be honest (What's the opposite of compassion fatigue?)
Have found this article summarising his findings though ..
Myth Busting: Robert Pape on ISIS, suicide terrorism, and U.S. Foreign Policy

Is it true that his research leads to him giving them (would-be suicide attackers in general) quite a lot of credit as political agents?

Yep. Most of them are aware of the political and social ramifications of what they do, and how it might affect the path of their stuggle.

Interesting that he seems to be saying here that ISIS in particular is basically a sort of nationalist movement.

In the old sense of the word, they are - they may be from different points of the compass but all want to secure a caliphate - a nation - over Islam.
They want to build and then perpetuate a "homeland" only for those who think like them, and that's about as nationalist as you can get.

 

[Batboy]

Your suspicion is ill-founded. Read the book I mentioned. The guy's research is thorough, includes psychiatric and physical assessments, and draws on other research. Your contention about mental illness and drug use isn't supported by the mass of evidence gathered about suicide operations.
As for suicide bombings taking place mainly in poor areas, again your contention isn't supported by reality.

The suicide bombings targeted at poor areas or where they congregate comes from a professor and writer I personally know who specialises in Middle Eastern Studies both historical and political he has consulted to or interviewed World Leaders on his specialist subject, He teaches at a high university level. I can't obviously name names, but he is very very well connected. The rationale is that the deliberate targeting of the areas where the poorer are generates a more inflamed reaction from those people affected, especially when it is Shia/Sunni factions or looking to create turmoil against an existing government.

This makes sense to me, obviously there has been a change over the last ten or so years with home grown jihadists looking to attack the west, but even with that taken into consideration the larger amount of bombings takes place in the street markets of Africa, Pakistan, Afghanistan/Asia and The Middle East rather than on the City streets of Europe or America. I trust his view point but will also check out your recommendations.

ETA : Would add I just read the interview you suggested. He acknowledges what I say in terms of secular problems and military occupation (I worded it differently) So I don't see that contradicting what I have just stated. The more I read on Pape the more it falls in line with my source. I'm meeting this guy tomorrow I'll run Robert Pape past him to see his views, he will know probably either know the guy or know of him. Looking at Pape his is very statistic driven, I'm not sure of his connections because often there is stuff going on that doesn't get made available even to Professors unless they have connections with the Intelligence services.

 

[bimble]

In the old sense of the word, they are - they may be from different points of the compass but all want to secure a caliphate - a nation - over Islam.
They want to build and then perpetuate a "homeland" only for those who think like them, and that's about as nationalist as you can get.

Does that mean that making ISIS stateless by for instance bombing the territory they currently control into rubble would make ISIS disappear? I have a feeling that the idea would live on without the territory. It's a peculiar kind of nationalism anyway.

 

[Gromit]

I'm pleased that so far there hasn't been no parading the Aintnomuslimbruv shouter around in a media circus with him trying to milk as much cash out of it as possible.