Vile, disgusting, entitled, predatory man hassles brave woman on unmanned railway station
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baldrick
hmmmmm
Most of the time when someone intervenes on behalf of a woman receiving hassle, that person is also female.
There's something that really needs explaining about that tbh.
And I'm not talking situations involving violence, but men following women down the street, wolf whistling, crowding on public transport, asking for phone numbers etc etc
All that's usually required is someone to show solidarity with the woman and show the creep that she's not on her own. But men will more often than not ignore it/not see it.
There's something that really needs explaining about that tbh.
And I'm not talking situations involving violence, but men following women down the street, wolf whistling, crowding on public transport, asking for phone numbers etc etc
All that's usually required is someone to show solidarity with the woman and show the creep that she's not on her own. But men will more often than not ignore it/not see it.
Inaction's often not exactly an option for a woman in this situation -- who may well be scared -- though, is it?
Not aimed at you, Shippou-Sensei, but I hate these types of threads where all the blokes sit around and say how rare and terrible it all is while the women are like FFS, have none of you been paying attention?
story
Changing the facts
You can use that as a fulcrum point.
-But you punched someone
-Yeah, I did, and look where it got me. Alpha male posturing isn’t the answer. AddIng to the violence isn’t a solution. So we have to find another way. So what can we do instead? What do you think is the right response?
It‘s about starting the conversation. It’s got to start somewhere.
Women are saying they’re pissed off saying the same stuff again and again and nothing changing.
They don’t have the privilege of “I fucking give up… the cunt men will win” cos they have to deal with those cunt men. Women are saying they want men to have this conversation too, not back out of it.
Women say Please talk to each other
Men say Not my problem, it’s not me and it’s not my mates, I can’t do right for doing wrong, I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what to do
Women say Er… okay I’ll guess we’ll just get on with things the way they are then…
AverageJoe
...
I literally don't have the energy any more. I've been beaten down by the law and community to the point where all I can do is look after me and mine. And I worry whether I'm doing that well enough.
story
Changing the facts
A friend of mine was hassled by a couple of blokes in the street a few weeks ago. It was daylight, outside a pub. She shouted at them and they backed off but one was shouting back at her. A woman who was passing by came and stood with her, calmed her down, offered to phone for help. Outside the pub, there were several tables all full of men who just sat there and watched. When my friend asked why they hadn’t helped or said anything, one said “I’m just here for a quiet pint, it’s not my problem love”, a couple laughed and the others went back to their conversations. When she told me the story she was more pissed off at the men who had done nothing than the ones who had hassled her. The woman who helped her walked her to her car and stayed with her until the hassling pair fucked off. My friend offered her a lift but she declined.
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InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
the reality outside ofthe London bubble is even main line / large twon stations are unstaffed outside office hours ( as the guards / Senior Conductors can self dispatch) and stations on smaller lines have been unstaffed for decades
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
baldrick
hmmmmm
Yes this is exactly what I meant. I reckon most women have stories like this.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
most suburban stations in london are similar, and think south western is the only one still to have guards on 'metro' trains
story
Changing the facts
And the thing is, the blokes who were doing the hassling, they were pretty confident that they’d not be interrupted. The presence of those other blokes didn’t deter them from starting on my friend.
story
Changing the facts
Is it cowardice or collusion though.
Or at any rate where does one stop and the other begin.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
As someone who’s lost two friends to stabbings the reality of on road incidents is very different to the morality on a message board.
This guy was a vile piece of shit; I hope he’s found and faces justice for his behaviour. I’m not entirely sure those who didn’t intervene should be charged as accomplices…
It does say something about our society where women have been abused like this so often most men just aren’t even bothering to be cognisant of it.
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editor
hiraethified
If I was on that platform there is no way I would have done nothing. In his fucked up mind, if he didn't get the girl, smashing someone's face in probably would have helped him reassert his pathetic masculinity, so there's no way I'd physically confront him, but I'd like to think I'd try and muster some support from other guys on the platform while on the phone to the cops.
That's what I've done in the past in a similar situation (the other guys weren't interested but luckily the guy fucked off). A few weeks ago I was walking through Green Park and saw this strange guy circling this young Muslim girl who was sat on the grass.
It really didn't feel right to me so I went across to her, explained what I saw, and she asked me to sit with her until he fucked off. He cycled around several times before giving up - something really wasn't right there - and in the end we had a lovely chat too!
muscovyduck
Good IT skills and food hygiene competent
Literally just had the same thing happen to me yesterday before I saw this thread, to the point where I considered how much these types are going to be egged on by seeing that video and whether that had played a role in what had specifically happened to me.
story
Changing the facts
Doing something need not include confrontation. That's a last resort, or should be. Solidarity and comradeship is better. It immediately puts the arsehole outside the pale, demonstrates fast and clear that his behaviour is socially unacceptable.
It's powerful because not only does it exclude the dickhead from the conversation it also demonstrates that being nice kind decent respectful to the woman gets a positive result from her.
Others around then find it possible to join in.
I've done this and seen it work multiple times. Just saying to her "You alright?" from a safe distance can be enough to massively shift the power dynamic.
It's powerful because not only does it exclude the dickhead from the conversation it also demonstrates that being nice kind decent respectful to the woman gets a positive result from her.
Others around then find it possible to join in.
I've done this and seen it work multiple times. Just saying to her "You alright?" from a safe distance can be enough to massively shift the power dynamic.
I read something you can do is point out what's happening to other by standers. like look at this, not right etc. It helps shatter the Someone Else's Problem parralasys, (for want of better description.) And adds to a collective sense of responsibility, backup, to say something. Not had to do this myself, fortunately.
Yeah, singling someone out and asking for help can shatter the effect where saying “somebody help” would less so.
That too I guess. but I meant as a bystander. Rather than from the PoV of the person being targeted. i.e. turning to one or more of your fellow commuters and saying, look at what this bloke's doing, it's out of order etc.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I guess it’s a bunch of different things - sometimes it’s understandable fear (another loan woman for example), sometimes its cowardice, sometimes it’s indifference. When there’s a group of men - none of whom do anything - yeah, I agree it’s complicity at that point.
story
Changing the facts
It's complicated, of course it is. Saying "it's /is it cowardice or collusion" isn't an end point, it's essentially a question. Something to turn the discussion on.
But also, I feel bound to point out that women step in to help each other really often. Even when men don't or won't. Not cos they're not scared, more likely because they know what it's like to be on the receiving end of the hassle I e. scared.
And also a man getting involved will be seen by a predatory male as a direct challenge which could lead to violence. Despite advice to the contrary.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
When a man steps up things escalate, this is the calculation you need to make. Always aim to do the right thing but let’s not bullshit ourselves that it can meaning taking your life into your own hands.
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story
Changing the facts
That’s true.
But when I say “step up“ I’m not saying “step in”.
I‘m suggesting that the way women tend to help and support each other (“You alright? Do you know him? Do you want me to phone someone?…. Hello Sis, fancy seeing you here! ….“ and what editor described earlier) could be adopted by men more widely.
Rather than “Oi what you doing, leave her alone, she’s not interested pal”.
Cos that’s the patriarchal conditioning thing right there. Women do appease, deflect, negotiate while men do push back.
NAMNOW obvs ffs
What women do for each other can lead to problems too. The issue is unreasonable and out of order men so obvs they‘re likely to react in unreasonable and OOO ways.
I dunno. I’m not saying this is the answer. I’m saying can we please start having a constructive conversation about what can be done. Instead of the yeh but stuff.
I‘m remembering those adverts for the army when they did POV stuff about de-escalating conflict situations. Maybe everyone needs to be taught that alongside all the other useful skills (not) taught at school : basic finances, first aid, basic DIY and cooking…
story
Changing the facts
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
When a man is toxic and aggressive any other man stepping in is usually perceived as stepping up by that type. Like I said you have to make an honest calculation, you should try and do the right thing but don’t be naive thinking you’re entering into a stable situation where your presence wont have an effect. I should be honest and point out I know I have a bias here, I’m 6’3” so when intervene there’s always a threat perception by the aggresso.
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
That’s like saying all lives matter. Doesn’t matter if you’re not that kind of man we’re still the best people to stop this.
