Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not that fucking charter again. This has been explained to you, like a million times in the past. Hamas are cunts but they don't have so much support because they all hate jews and that's that. .

It must be tough for you, wanting to be anti zionist, but trying to downplay the antisemitism of Israel's foes in the middle east.

 

[frogwoman]

More inflammatory than the zionist sympathisers who suggest that the reason for the holocaust was because of jews marrying gentiles and that Jews need a safe haven not only because of the iniquity of the gentiles but also to save themselves from temptations and sinfulness that might bring a bigger holocaust on them?

I've met people like this btw.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

More inflammatory than the zionist sympathisers who suggest that the reason for the holocaust was because of jews marrying gentiles and that Jews need a safe haven not only because of the iniquity of the gentiles but also to save themselves from temptations and sinfulness that might bring a bigger holocaust on them?

I've met people like this btw.

The question was if those who die in a Tel Aviv market are martyrs. You said no, because they didn't die because they are jews.

I'm pointing out that those who do the bombing and send the bombers are very specific about their hatred of jews and their desire to see them perish in fire.

So it looks to me that those Jews dying in a Tel Aviv market, are being killed because they are Jews.

 

[frogwoman]

It must be tough for you, wanting to be anti zionist, but trying to downplay the antisemitism of Israel's foes in the middle east.

Huh. I'm not downplaying anything. A few words in a charter don't justify stealing land from innocent people and policies that were started before hamas even existed.


It's like someone stepping on my foot and making a few remarks about me in a queue and then me beating them to death with a hammer.

 

[yield]

When I read things like this, it makes me think that it might have something to do with the jews.

What do you think?

The brothers of apes and pigs. That's pretty inflammatory language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

The wiki has many of the same quotes.

So the Turkish Politician İbrahim Bilgen was a terrorist?

 

[frogwoman]

The question was if those who die in a Tel Aviv market are martyrs. You said no, because they didn't die because they are jews.

I'm pointing out that those who do the bombing and send the bombers are very specific about their hatred of jews and their desire to see them perish in fire.

So it looks to me that those Jews dying in a Tel Aviv market, are being killed because they are Jews.

Why do you think that hatred exists? Anything to do with 1948 perhaps, anything to do with seeing their homes destroyed again and again? This isn't comparable to a seething mob destroying someone's house because of some stupid folk tale. Israelis are targetted because of their government's policies not because they are jews.

If the situations were reversed it would be exactly the same. The case is not true with anti-semitism.

 

[Spymaster]

But in the past Israel has just shot people who weren't doing anything, and were even surrendering.

Well again, I question whether all of those resisting truly believed that they were in a fight or die situation. And if an Israeli commando points a gun at you he may shoot, if you attack him with a stick he will shoot.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Huh. I'm not downplaying anything. A few words in a charter don't justify stealing land from innocent people and policies that were started before hamas even existed.


It's like someone stepping on my foot and making a few remarks about me in a queue and then me beating them to death with a hammer.

Do you also think that Israelis are cunning liars who have a long history of killing innocents deliberately and without cause, and who consistently break treaties and who will scupper any attempts at peace?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Why do you think that hatred exists? Anything to do with 1948 perhaps, anything to do with seeing their homes destroyed again and again? This isn't comparable to a seething mob destroying someone's house because of some stupid folk tale. Israelis are targetted because of their government's policies not because they are jews.

Why do all those hate speeches keep mentioning jews?

 

[frogwoman]

Do you also think that Israelis are cunning liars who have a long history of killing innocents deliberately and without cause, and who consistently break treaties and who will scupper any attempts at peace?

Who said anything about "Israelis"? The government are like this yes. Possibly because they are literally still ruled by many of the same people involved in 48 and other events in the country's history.

I'd think Israelis are the same as anyone else to be honest. I don't think they're genetically predestined to be cunts or something like you're suggesting.

 

[frogwoman]

Why do all those hate speeches keep mentioning jews?

You tell me. Im sure jews being killed by the spanish weren't exactly PC in their language. Im sure quite a few ukrainian peasants starved to death by stalin mentioned "the russians" instead of "the soviet union".

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'd think Israelis are the same as anyone else to be honest. I don't think they're genetically predestined to be cunts or something like you're suggesting.

I'm not suggesting it. I asked if you put other groups in the same position as the israelis have been in, would the other groups do the same?

Some people said 'no' to that question.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You tell me. Im sure jews being killed by the spanish weren't exactly PC in their language.

I think they keep mentioning jews because..... they hate jews.

 

[free spirit]

Well again, I question whether all of those resisting truly believed that they were in a fight or die situation. And if an Israeli commando points a gun at you he may shoot, if you attack him with a stick he will shoot.

not if you've broken both his arms with the stick / knocked him out / bundled him over the side of the boat / pinned him to the floor before he's unhooked from the rope.

live on your knees grovelling in the dirt, or stand and fight

 

[frogwoman]

I think they keep mentioning jews because..... they hate jews.

And I'm saying while they might, out of ignorance (the evidence shows otherwise btw) that this "anti-semitism" is qualitively different from other anti-semitism.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

not if you've broken both his arms with the stick / knocked him out / bundled him over the side of the boat / pinned him to the floor before he's unhooked from the rope.

Hard to do when you wake up naked in bed with a gun to your head.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And I'm saying while they might, out of ignorance.

If they hate you and kill you out of ignorance, is that better than if they hate you and kill you from a more enlightened anti semitism?

 

[Spymaster]

not if you've broken both his arms with the stick / knocked him out / bundled him over the side of the boat / pinned him to the floor before he's unhooked from the rope.

Assuming that was possible, what do you reckon his mates looking down from the helicopter with guns are going to be doing?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think in Assassin's Creed, it's possible to get out of bed and beat an assailant, then slip away with the help of a magic cloak so that the bad buddies can't get you either.

 

[yield]

Assuming that was possible, what do you reckon his mates looking down from the helicopter with guns are going to be doing?

Hopefully not shooting at their mates who've already gone down the ropes.

 

[frogwoman]

If they hate you and kill you out of ignorance, is that better than if they hate you and kill you from a more enlightened anti semitism?

Who says that it's enlightened. It wasn't enlightened at all.

there's simply no comparison between a few - A FEW - desperate people who have had their land confiscated, who have been made refugees many times, etc, blaming "the jews" for their trouble rather than zionism, and taking a desperate route to kill innocent civilians, and ................. a systematic government/church led effort to convert and terrorise people into converting, and church and government led angry mobs destroying houses, raping women, confiscating property, beating people to death, banning them from any profession other from usury, spying on them, etc.


It is fucking disgusting that you equate the two and that you devalue the deaths of these martyrs, that you are basically implying that the reasons they died are the same as the reason why people hate Israel.

It is actually pretty anti-semitic. Easy to turn it around and say how is anti-zionism differnt to anti-semitism, surely the jews in the middle ages asked for it, surely anti-semitism was justified then. They did not ask for it. They were innocent. They had done absolutely nothing to deserve it. Sorry.

 

[Spymaster]

Hopefully not shooting at their mates who've already gone down the ropes.

Definitely not shooting at their mates!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Who says that it's enlightened. It wasn't enlightened at all. .

I was just trying to figure out this thing you said

And I'm saying while they might, out of ignorance

 

[frogwoman]

I think some palestinians equate israel with jews out of ignorance. You know. The same as what you are doing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

.. a systematic government/church led effort to convert and terrorise people into converting, and church and government led angry mobs destroying houses, raping women, confiscating property, beating people to death, banning them from any profession other from usury, spying on them, etc. .

If the IDF was defeated, and the Egyptian, Syrian and Iranian armies rolled into Tel Aviv, what do you think would happen?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It is fucking disgusting that you equate the two and that you devalue the deaths of these martyrs, that you are basically implying that the reasons they died are the same as the reason why people hate Israel.

I'm saying that anti semitism is anti semitism.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They did not ask for it. They were innocent. They had done absolutely nothing to deserve it. Sorry.

I'd agree. I don't think those women and children killed in Tel Aviv markets were any less innocent.

 

[frogwoman]

If the IDF was defeated, and the Egyptian, Syrian and Iranian armies rolled into Tel Aviv, what do you think would happen?

Bad things. Who said I wanted this? I dont want it.

Diaspora jews are hardly more safer after the creation of israel than before though.

What does Israel do to help victims of aniti-semitism around the world? Nothing except "encourage" them (and in some cases coerce) them to come to Israel.

What kind of "friend" is this? Not one that I want, that's for sure.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think some palestinians equate israel with jews out of ignorance. .

So it's just confusion that gets them strapping on suicide belts?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Bad things. Who said I wanted this? I dont want it. .

I never said you did. What makes you think I said you did?

How would Iranians raping and killing their way through Tel Aviv be different from Russian soldiers raping and killing their way through the shtetl?