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Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

Do you think the American sponsorship of Israel as a proxy in the middle east has anything to do with oil?
That's a completely different question to the position you previously posted on. You implied that the problems of Israel and Palestine would become secondary once the oil ran out. I don't think it will. And whilst oil may have a significant influence on US foriegn policy, the book by the academic dudes on the issue of israeli influence on us foriegn policy also makes it clear that this is a relatively minor fact in the overall picture.
 
That's a completely different question to the position you previously posted on. You implied that the problems of Israel and Palestine would become secondary once the oil ran out. I don't think it will. And whilst oil may have a significant influence on US foriegn policy, the book by the academic dudes on the issue of israeli influence on us foriegn policy also makes it clear that this is a relatively minor fact in the overall picture.

I didn't imply that it would become secondary. I said, not implied, that it will lose its importance to the superpowers, and it will become a regional squabble, like something in Africa.
 
If you say so, then it must be so. :)


I can't claim ownership of the idea, btw. It's from some of those scholarly types. :D
i don't know if it was you but someone posted the quote about learning the lessons of history lest you repeat them, and there's been ~6,000 years of settlement ita, and a great deal of that has been conflicted.

you can't really ignore the wider sins of the current majority occupants of a significant proportion of the land at the centre of the current struggle for supremacy, on the basis that it will sort itself out soonish, can you?
 
What was he on about regarding the families of some of the victims saying that they wanted to be martyrs?

Is that very recent news, something I've missed or total bollocks?
the only confirmed reports i have read suggest that some of the people killed were treated to a "martyr-type" funeral in turkey, which isn't that surprising maybe? i have seen speculation along the lines you suggest but i have a suspicion as to its veracity tbh.
 
Wouldn't you prefer that no rockets were being launched in your direction? It would reduce the chance of death by rocket, from very small, to nil.

There's no way to ensure no rockets are launched in my direction, so I wouldn't waste my time worrying about it or, as you are doing, trying desperately to use the issue to make a point.
 
the only confirmed reports i have read suggest that some of the people killed were treated to a "martyr-type" funeral in turkey, which isn't that surprising maybe? i have seen speculation along the lines you sggest but i have a suspicion as to its veracity tbh.

Ok, he just repeated it several times and wasn't challenged by anyone :confused:.

Got me Googling but I couldn't find anything to support it, even on Israeli sites.
 
the only confirmed reports i have read suggest that some of the people killed were treated to a "martyr-type" funeral in turkey, which isn't that surprising maybe? i have seen speculation along the lines you suggest but i have a suspicion as to its veracity tbh.

Once again, why so much vehement opposition to the idea that some of them might have wanted to be martyrs?
 
Ok, he just repeated it several times and wasn't challenged by anyone :confused:.

Got me Googling but I couldn't find anything to support it, even on Israeli sites.
he's an ex-ed of the sun, he's hardly fucking paul foot, he's not even piers moron tbf. i wasn't completely impressed with this tonight, our incumbent mp said all the right things but has shown herself to be very dubious in the past on much of her rhetoric.
 
thing is, it's not just oil, it's about water (israel is afaik one of the parts of the middle east most rich in water along with turkey afaik), it's about strategic routes and supply lines, proximity to russia and the caucasus (and that's, especially chechnya, georgia etc, going become the real prize, evne more important than the middle east, espeically given the wealth of oil, sea access and other resources there, when oil is becoming increasingly scarce) and it's about religion. this will always be an issue to the world superpowers because of jerusalem and the ideological and cultural importance of it in christianity and islam, and there is something of an uneasiness about transferring (or threatening to transfer) control of it over to people who've freqently been seen as unbelievers or less friendly with the christian world (kathleen richardson goes in detail into this in her book perceptions of palestine), i know that jews were not seen like this, but the original colonists and to a lesser extent the largely ashkenazi elite are still seen as being more european today. I think the role of religion is always overstated in world affairs but not necessarily in this case.
 
Once again, why so much vehement opposition to the idea that some of them might have wanted to be martyrs?

Because it's utterly irrelevant to what Israel is doing. And maybe some of them did what to be martyrs, or were at least prepared to die in the name of possibly saving more people in Gaza.


In my prayer book thjere is a poem by a rabbi who was eventualy killed by the nazis and is regarded as a martyr. He could have left when it was safe to do so but he wanted to become a martyr and stay with his community, the ones who could not get out. Martyrdom is a concept in Judaism just like it is in Islam, are all the jews who died their faith and still die, are they all terrorists? if someone does want to die for something they believe in does it make them automatically a cunt?
 
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