Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yep. Fuck off Canuck. You colossal moron

I know it's a hard question for you to answer out in the open.

We all know how you feel about Israel. What should we do about them?

Have you got the guts to be honest?

 

[Spion]

I know it's a hard question for you to answer out in the open.

We all know how you feel about Israel. What should we do about them?

Have you got the guts to be honest?

See post #2483 you fucking moron

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

They're criminals, you say. They are committing genocide. They don't listen to reason, and they break treaties.

What should be done?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Punishment? You're a weirdo, Canuck.

The situation needs resolving - starting with the lifting of the blockade, ending the occupation of the post-67 territories, and equal rights for arabs inside Israel, plus compensation or return for the 48 and 67 refugees*. In short, justice for wrongs done.


(* paid for by Israel, US, UK and to a lesser extent other European and Arab states)

Lots more good talk. The Israelis won't lift the blockade. They break treaties, so why would you trust them to give equal rights or compensation? If they've embarked on a policy of genocide, it seems unlikely that they'll fulfill your wish list, doesn't it?

So, if push comes to shove, what is to be done?

 

[spring-peeper]

You're a real shit-disturber, aren't you?

I don't read what that....fellow...... has to say anymore.

carry on - one of the best threads in a while. Thank you.

 

[killer b]

cut off aid & investment, sanctions? be a good start.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

See post #2483 you fucking moron

Your argument seems to be: "They've been totally unreasonable and acting like criminals for decades - and the answer is to sit down and talk and get them to act reasonably."

Huh?

 

[Flavour]

nuke jerusalem

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

cut off aid & investment, sanctions? be a good start.

I asked this last night too: should we set up a land and naval blockade to stop stuff from getting through to Israel, once we apply sanctions?

 

[killer b]

no, why?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm still kinda curious about the answer to this question I asked about Israel and the Israelis:

Alright, so you think that any group of people put in the same situation, would behave in the same way?

 

[Spion]

I asked this last night too: should we set up a land and naval blockade to stop stuff from getting through to Israel, once we apply sanctions?

No. Stop the stuff at the docks. Stop buying their goods in the shops. Mass activity to shut down Israel/relieve the blockade/occupation is my favoured approach

 

[killer b]

no, i don't. edit: @jc. fwiw.

 

[danny la rouge]

Alright, so you think that any group of people put in the same situation, would behave in the same way?

No.

 

[Spion]

'

 

[Spion]

No.

I thought you'd say yes

 

[Spion]

Canuck - what do you think should be done?

 

[sleaterkinney]

I'm still kinda curious about the answer to this question I asked about Israel and the Israelis:

In terms of wiping out their neighbours?

 

[Flavour]

Canuck - what do you think should be done?

,

 

[ViolentPanda]

I just want to hear what all these vociferous critics think will solve the problem.

It's not "a" problem, it's a slew of them.

 

[danny la rouge]

I thought you'd say yes

Really? I don't think the Israeli state has to behave the way it's behaving.

 

[dylans]

I found a photo of Johnny Canuck

 

[Spion]

Really? I don't think the Israeli state has to behave the way it's behaving.

Ah, I thought you meant colonisers behave as you'd expect colonisers to do.

 

[danny la rouge]

Ah, I thought you meant colonisers behave as you'd expect colonisers to do.

Sadly it's the way they often behave, but I don't think they have to behave that way.

 

[sihhi]

Er, that was Sas; not me?

It was you but you do it with more subtlety:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10721610&postcount=2166

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10721604&postcount=2164

For a long time, antisemitism said that jews were bad people who get up to all sorts of bad things.

Then, mid century, they get their own state.

Now, here they are, acting like bad people who get up to all sorts of bad things, apparently.

Should the Israelis be exterminated for the general good of the world?

Or at the very least, be evicted from the land that they stole?

WTF is this shit?

on Palestine and Israel, Chomsky:

Personally I'm very much opposed to Hamas' policies in almost every respect. However, we should recognize that the policies of Hamas are more forthcoming and more conducive to a peaceful settlement than those of the United States or Israel. So to repeat: the policies, in my view, are unacceptable, but preferable to the policies of the United States and Israel.

So, for example, Hamas has called for a long-term indefinite truce on the international border. There is a long-standing international consensus that goes back over thirty years that there should be a two-state political settlement on the international border, the pre-June 1967 border, with minor and mutual modifications. That's the official phrase. Hamas is willing to accept that as a long-term truce. The United States and Israel are unwilling even to consider it.

It will take major social struggles in Western countries to push them to refuse to arm and support Israel.

Even Turkey which has lost so many citizens still supports and deals with Israel

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=military-programs-with-israel-remain-in-place-2010-06-03

 

[tangentlama]

Your argument seems to be: "They've been totally unreasonable and acting like criminals for decades - and the answer is to sit down and talk and get them to act reasonably."

Huh?

In no particular order:

A ban on all firearms. People may have fireworks displays if they find the lack of loud bangs and flashes impossible to live without.

Committment from both Israel and Palestine, with time-scales of no more than 2 years, to commit to full demilitarisation of their administrations for both Israeli and Palestinian societies.

An end to conscription in Israel and paramilitary organisations in Palestine.

For both Israel and Palestine, their young people be allowed to continue their education or apprenticeships with full state support to age 21, then live their lives well, be the best chefs, scientists and bin men they can be.

For those whose youths whose lives have already been scarred by being forced by their elders to be martyrs for ethnonationalist causes, free counselling, self-help groups, free drug-addiction programmes (not methadone-based), and on a case-by-case basis, compensation for the varying degrees of trauma caused by the conflict.

There is more...

 

[IC3D]

I'm still kinda curious about the answer to this question I asked about Israel and the Israelis:

Johnny if you went to Israel I doubt you would be sticking up for the IDF its the most racist place I've ever been too.

 

[tangentlama]

A long, indefinite truce is indeed the only way to end a war.

 

[ViolentPanda]

so. why have so many posters spent ages on this thread, trying to diminish or deconstruct the actions of the activists on the deck,

btw, not surprised to see super-annuated trots and ex AFA supporting violent self defence

What sort of bullshit notion is "violent self-defence"? They reacted to the violence used against them. It's hardly as if they had time to prepare a strategy of NVDA to deal with the specifics of the attack.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I support their right to self-defence.

I just think that exercising that right in the way that some did was deeply foolish.

That's only true if you believe that self-defence doesn't need to be proportional to the threat. If you accept that self-defence does indeed need to be proportional to the threat, then questions of foolishness are immaterial.