Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

Disingenuous, Johnny; the criticism of the Israeli state is based on its actions. It is no different to criticism of other colonisers, such as criticism of the Dutch in South Africa, or Europeans in North America. In fact, the parallels are instructive. In short, Israel is criticised not for behaving like Jews, but for behaving like colonisers.

Alright, so you think that any group of people put in the same situation, would behave in the same way?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Shame on you, JohnnyCanuck for again declaring those on the thread opposing Israel are basically anti-semitic ]

Er, that was Sas; not me?

 

[dylans]

Here is the facebook group calling for the execution of Haneen Zuabi. If you are on facebook consider trolling it and reporting it.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/yrwslym/lhwzy-lhwrg-t-hk-hnyn-zwby/121725647863227?v=info

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Why mention it then?

To, like, have a clearer understanding of exactly what happened?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not sure what you mean, anyway, it would be more honest if some of the posters stood up and said they defended the right of the activists to retaliate with weapons against the IDF.

He means that if it isn't anti Israeli, he doesn't want to hear it. In fact, it should never be spoken aloud by anyone to anyone, because it is heresy.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Are you reading the same thread as me? Most people (apart from Spymaster) have defended their right to self defence.

Confusing!

Why mention it then?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Indeed, and I'll go a little further. My joy would have known no bounds had the protesters succeeded in dropping every last one of the IDF commandos over the side. Preferably having killed them first.

There you go.

Would you support an invasion of Israel? Sort of dropping the whole IDF over the side, as it were?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You are making assumptions. Some boats had previously sailed through unhindered, so while it would probably right to say they might wonder whether there be violent consequences, they might also have wondered whether they would be permitted to pass unhindered as other boats in the past.h.

I thought there was a blockade? What happens: does the blockade shut down between the hours of midnight and three?

Or does the IDF flip a coin: heads goes through, tails gets commandos?



Also, there's the little stumbling block of this particular flotilla got warned in advance that it would be stopped. Not much to wonder about there then.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

not that anyone disputing it is a zionist but i just don't see the relevance of going on about the actions of the activists.

Yes, who wants to bother with annoying details?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Go look up the death-count for Qassam attacks in the last ten years. That extremely low death-count shows that fewer Israeli citizens are killed by those crude long-range mortars, than are killed by left-over ordnance. The threat of death attributable to a Qassam (especially in a country where most of the housing stock is built from thick-cast reinforced concrete) is indeed trivial and therefore worthy of trivialisation..

So if someone were firing Qassam rockets into Brixton, you'd be fine with that.

What with the low death toll and all.

 

[editor]

Also, there's the little stumbling block of this particular flotilla got warned in advance that it would be stopped. Not much to wonder about there then.

Israel had no legal right to attack unarmed boats in international waters with lethal force, whether you see that or not.

Fortunately almost all of the international community understands the illegality of their actions, regardless of your bizarre denials, and Israel are suffering a considerable diplomatic backlash as a result - and it's a backlash that one I hope will grow and grow.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yup. Even a standard mortar round is launched from a tube at least 5 times the rounds' length, and is sighted using a tried and tested system. A Qassam is like a bottle rocket: It just goes (if you're lucky) in the direction you point it until the fuel is spent, and then falls.

Farm worker to farmer: "Those guys over there are firing rockets at us!"

Farmer: "Don't worry about it. They hardly ever hit anything."

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Israel had no legal right to attack unarmed boats in international waters with lethal force, whether you see that or not..

I've said that three times at least. Why not read the thread before weighing in with your misconceptions?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

regardless of your bizarre denials,.

Oh, do read the thread.

 

[agricola]

Farm worker to farmer: "Those guys over there are firing rockets at us!"

Farmer: "Don't worry about it. They hardly ever hit anything."

IDF: "Dont worry, farming types - we have dropped a thousand pound bomb on the launch site, they wont be doing it again. Nor will the family living in the house next door."

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'll ask the same question again: the anti zionist rhetoric is rife. So, the question is: given that Israel consistently breaks peace treaties, doesn't listen to its allies, and is continuing on a course of genocide against the Palestinians, what is to be done?

Talking isn't working, apparently. I've seen lots of reference to the criminal activities of Israel. What punishment should be meted out?

 

[sleaterkinney]

So if someone were firing Qassam rockets into Brixton, you'd be fine with that.

If Canada was busy screwing over say Washington or Alaska, would you be ok with it?

 

[agricola]

I'll ask the same question again: the anti zionist rhetoric is rife. So, the question is: given that Israel consistently breaks peace treaties, doesn't listen to its allies, and is continuing on a course of genocide against the Palestinians, what is to be done?

Talking isn't working, apparently. I've seen lots of reference to the criminal activities of Israel. What punishment should be meted out?

Seriously? The same as nearly any other nation that repeatedly breaks international law and Security Council resolutions - ostracism, sanctions, international military force followed by criminal trials if no progress is made.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck3 View Post
From what I know of maritime/international law, it's illegal to board vessels in international waters without provocation, killing passengers in the process.

Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck3 View Post
I feel that it's illegal.

Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck3 View Post
Which doesn't change the fact that when a stronger force comes at you in an illegal manner, you must make a choice to resist, or to not resist.

........................

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If Canada was busy screwing over say Washington or Alaska, would you be ok with it?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Seriously? The same as nearly any other nation that repeatedly breaks international law and Security Council resolutions - ostracism, sanctions, international military force followed by criminal trials if no progress is made.

Ok, another honest answer. Sanctions. If they don't work: invasion.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

For those in favour of invasion: what to do once the IDF is whipped? Give the place back to its previous Palestinian owners?


Should the Israelis be sent packing?

 

[Spion]

I'll ask the same question again: the anti zionist rhetoric is rife. So, the question is: given that Israel consistently breaks peace treaties, doesn't listen to its allies, and is continuing on a course of genocide against the Palestinians, what is to be done?

Talking isn't working, apparently. I've seen lots of reference to the criminal activities of Israel. What punishment should be meted out?

Punishment? You're a weirdo, Canuck.

The situation needs resolving - starting with the lifting of the blockade, ending the occupation of the post-67 territories, and equal rights for arabs inside Israel, plus compensation or return for the 48 and 67 refugees*. In short, justice for wrongs done.


(* paid for by Israel, US, UK and to a lesser extent other European and Arab states)

 

[dylans]

Would you support an invasion of Israel? Sort of dropping the whole IDF over the side, as it were?

This has been discussed and answered time and time again. The fact is you choose to completely ignore those answers and just repeatedly post the same inane pointless drivel again and again and again like one of those moth eaten child's dolls with a string in its chest that you pull to cry "momma momma" over and over again until the batteries run out or until a frustrated parent stamps on it's head.

Either post something of value or give it a rest. You have shown that you have no knowledge of the issues involved, you have no interest in learning anything about the issues involved, you have nothing positive or new or interesting to add to the discussion, you are simply doing your best to disrupt discussion of this issue.

You have already ruined this thread and I for one will not respond to you anymore. I suggest others do the same. Now please, pretty please, pretty please with sugar on top, Fuck off.

 

[agricola]

For those in favour of invasion: what to do once the IDF is whipped? Give the place back to its previous Palestinian owners?


Should the Israelis be sent packing?

For someone who insists that people should get his point, you do a spectacularly shit job of understanding everyone elses. Please note that military force would (and should) take place only after every other option had been exhausted.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

For someone who insists that people should get his point, you do a spectacularly shit job of understanding everyone elses. Please note that military force would (and should) take place only after every other option had been exhausted.

Fine, but it's on the table as an option. You'll note that the sanctions against Iraq didn't work, even though they killed between half a million and one million children.

So, the question is, if force becomes necessary, what to do with the Israelis once the shooting stops?

 

[spring-peeper]

This has been discussed and answered time and time again. The fact is you choose to completely ignore those answers and just repeatedly post the same inane pointless drivel again and again and again like one of those moth eaten child's dolls with a string in its chest that you pull to cry "momma momma" over and over again until the batteries run out or until a frustrated parent stamps on it's head.

Either post something of value or give it a rest. You have shown that you have no knowledge of the issues involved, you have no interest in learning anything about the issues involved, you have nothing positive or new or interesting to add to the discussion, you are simply doing your best to disrupt discussion of this issue.

You have already ruined this thread and I for one will not respond to you anymore. I suggest others do the same. Now please, pretty please, pretty please with sugar on top, Fuck off.

*hands JC a hankie*

eta: I'm just here waiting to see why we would be attacking the States

 

[Spion]

This has been discussed and answered time and time again. The fact is you choose to completely ignore those answers and just repeatedly post the same inane pointless drivel again and again and again like one of those moth eaten child's dolls with a string in its chest that you pull to cry "momma momma" over and over again until the batteries run out or until a frustrated parent stamps on it's head.

Either post something of value or give it a rest. You have shown that you have no knowledge of the issues involved, you have no interest in learning anything about the issues involved, you have nothing positive or new or interesting to add to the discussion, you are simply doing your best to disrupt discussion of this issue.

You have already ruined this thread and I for one will not respond to you anymore. I suggest others do the same. Now please, pretty please, pretty please with sugar on top, Fuck off.

Yep. Fuck off Canuck. You colossal moron

 

[Spion]

*hands JC a hankie*

Fuck me, it's a moron tag team now

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

*hands JC a hankie*

You're a real shit-disturber, aren't you?

I don't read what that....fellow...... has to say anymore.