Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[ViolentPanda]

In any event, let's focus. This thread is about Israel and Palestine.

No it isn't, it's about an attack by Israeli forces on a convoy of ships in international waters.

 

[tangentlama]

They were boarded in the middle of the night, as you can see in the last video report filed by Al Jazeera English's Jamal Elshayyal before communications were cut.



However, in the photo you can see daylight in the background. I've seen another photo of the same or similar group where there was what looked like a Saudi flag on the ground. I don't know if there were any Saudis on board the boat. They were mostly from Turkey.

And where is that guy? If he was on board the boat, why haven't they identified him and paraded him in front of the cameras? If that is such conclusive evidence, why haven't they proceeded to trial? Why have they released all those alleged "terrorists"? Could it possibly be because (a) in most cases, people were subjected to brutal attacks despite being non-violent and not resisting or (b) where people did resist, they would have a legal defence of self defence, so Israel doesn't want to put them on the stand.

Anyway, back to that photo: It's bollocks, basically. Classic misinformation propaganda.

I agree. The caption from the IDF read:

An activist on board the Gaza flotilla holding a knife after Israel Navy commandos boarded their ship on May 31, 2010.

IDF boarded during the middle of the night during a daylight photo shoot whilst an angry-looking beardy-man wielding a knife brandishes it menacingly - and that is quality IDF proof that terrorists were on board.
Must not be able to get the staff these days

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was born in 1961. I clearly remember the state of the world before the fall of the USSR.

"Grandma, we love you..."

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I agree. The caption from the IDF read:

IDF boarded during the middle of the night during a daylight photo shoot whilst an angry-looking beardy-man wielding a knife brandishes it menacingly - and that is quality IDF proof that terrorists were on board.
Must not be able to get the staff these days

It's not necessarily about being plausible. It's about getting the message out there first. Mud sticks and all that. And it's also about giving hasbara peeps ammunition to use against people who are gullible.

 

[cesare]

"Grandma, we love you..."

Oi! You're the same age as me (more or less)

 

[sihhi]

This is the sixth form college website of one of the dead.

http://www.hisarciklioglu.k12.tr

Just turned 19; 4 bullets within his skull, 2 in his chest according to the medical reports.

 

[dylans]

Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck3
Trying to cast the launching of the projectiles as some sort of comedy routine acts to trivialize the threat of death that they represent.

This conflict is so asymmetrical that it defies even the term conflict. The death toll from operation caste lead in 2008 was Between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinians dead and 13 Israelis..

Conflict? This isn't a conflict. This is one sided annihilation.

Your cynical and dishonest outrage at the puny and ineffectual attempts by Palestinians to resist Israeli brutality is staggering and contemptible. It is also utterly transparent and masks a hidden agenda. While crying outrage at every act of Palestinian resistance, however ineffectual, you excuse and apologise for the most outrageous and disgusting Israeli violence.

It's akin to condemning a slave for using violence to break his chains while excusing the whip of the slave owner. Your game is hypocritical and obvious. You are defending those who commit crimes against humanity while demanding saintly behaviour from the victims.

No deaths are trivial, all life is sacred and all deaths are unbearably tragic. Believe me, I know this better than most, but Palestinian lives are not less worthy than Israeli lives and the Palestinian people have a legitimate and moral right to resistance in the face of annihilation.

 

[frogwoman]

Nino just gave me a nice idea for a chant to use on the Israeli embassy demo on Saturday, involving a play on words of an Israeli diplomat's name

 

[dylans]

No it isn't, it's about an attack by Israeli forces on a convoy of ships in international waters.

Hate to disagree but it has to be about more than that. It is about an attack by Israeli forces on a convoy of ships by a government enforcing an illegal and immoral blockade which is starving a million and half people.

The blockade is the issue.

The blockade is illegal
The blockade was being challenged
Those who challenged the blockade were answered with bullets.

It is Israel who wish to separate the issue of the attacks from the issue of the blockade and thus strip the events of all political meaning. It is important we don't allow this. To every twist and turn of this story we should answer "end the blockade of Gaza"

 

[cesare]

This is the sixth form college website of one of the dead.

http://www.hisarciklioglu.k12.tr

Just turned 19; 4 bullets within his skull, 2 in his chest according to the medical reports.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

This is the sixth form college website of one of the dead.

http://www.hisarciklioglu.k12.tr

Just turned 19; 4 bullets within his skull, 2 in his chest according to the medical reports.

And one bullet in the foot of the Zionist government of Israel.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Has anyone seen the footage released today by Israel? It shows some activists pointing out to sea as if to point at the Israeli convoy. It then shows them holding metal bars. What's interesting about the footage though is it shows them looking out over the edge and then suddenly ducking very quickly as if they'd been shot at, this, along with various activist accounts, suggests to me that they were indeed shot at before the soldiers boarded the ship. If that's the case can the apologists on here still put the blame on the activists and keep a straight face whilst doing so?

 

[Spymaster]

Has anyone seen the footage released today by Israel? It shows some activists pointing out to sea as if to point at the Israeli convoy. It then shows them holding metal bars. What's interesting about the footage though is it shows them looking out over the edge and then suddenly ducking very quickly as if they'd been shot at, this, along with various activist accounts, suggests to me that they were indeed shot at before the soldiers boarded the ship. If that's the case can the apologists on here still put the blame on the activists and keep a straight face whilst doing so?

Was there any doubt that the ship was fired on before it was boarded?

 

[dylans]

The fact that all video and photographic footage was confiscated by Israel and is still being withheld tells us a lot. If Israel is so confident that their story is correct they can easily prove it. They can respond to the demands by Reporters without borders and release the footage they confiscated from accredited journalists. All the footage, uncut, unedited and unaltered. Until they do we have every reason to reject their "evidence" as worthless propaganda

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Was there any doubt that the ship was fired on before it was boarded?

Yes according to the Israelis, they insist they didn't start shooting until they had no other choice but to defend themselves on board.

 

[Spymaster]

Apparently the Hamas leaders in Gaza will not accept the aid and it's been sent back to Ashdod.

Meanwhile, some of the 10,000 tonnes of aid seized from the flotilla by Israel has been returned to the Israeli port of Ashdod after being left stranded at a Gaza-Israel crossing.

The Hamas government in control of Gaza refused to accept the aid until the Israeli-Arab activists still in detention were released.

Not sure about that. Obviously the whole affair is about more than delivering aid, it's about running the blockade, but when the aid is there, it should be used by the people of Gaza, not as a political pawn.

Will Israel release the activists? I doubt it, meanwhile thousands of tons of aid that people died to deliver, rot on a quayside.

 

[Weller]

Meanwhile, some of the 10,000 tonnes of aid seized from the flotilla by Israel has been returned to the Israeli port of Ashdod after being left stranded at a Gaza-Israel crossing.

The Hamas government in control of Gaza refused to accept the aid until the Israeli-Arab activists still in detention were released.

A bit more to it than just that amongst other things the cargo of electric wheelchairs have had the batteries removed by Israel which pretty much renders them useless .

 

[butchersapron]

This might interest some people, it's a A Juridical Analysis of the Flotilla Incident - author a Spanish law student.

 

[dylans]

Here is some information on internal domestic reaction inside Israel.

Yesterday the international outrage spread to the floor of the Knesset which almost erupted into violence. Balad MK Haneen Zuabi (who had been on one of the ships) addressed the Knesset and almost caused a riot

Referring to the earlier debate, Zuabi said she was "astonished by the incitement and despised the words she had heard."

She said that she had agreed to participate in the flotilla as it was a "political human and moral 'mitzva' to oppose the imprisonment of 1.5 million people."

She described the blockade of Gaza as an "illegal, inhuman, illegitimate siege opposed by every politician who has a moral position... ...only the immoral support the blockade."

Zuabi described the raid on the flotilla as a "pirate operation that was criminal and against international law."

She attacked the film of the raid that the IDF released: "Why does the Israeli government oppose an inquiry? Why does it oppose revealing the truth? Why did you take journalists' cameras? Why did you only publish the pictures linked to the IDF operation, Why didn't you publicize film of the ten men who died?."

She criticized those attacking her, saying "Who is the criminal? Did I murder anyone?"

For this she was called a traitor and several KMs attempted to physically attack her. Someone shouted "search her for knives" and several KMs were expelled from the Knesset,

Speaking in the angry debate that took place prior to Zuabi's statement, MK Arieh Eldad (National Union) called Israeli Arabs "enemies of Israel", Kadima MK Yulia Shamalov Berkovitz said the Arab parties' Knesset members were "parliamentary spies".

Israel Beiteinu MK David Rotem said that "Arab MKs do not represent the Arab citizens, they represent terror organizations in Gaza."

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177271

Across the country the atmosphere is hysterically patriotic and jingoistic, pro IDF demonstrations are taking place daily and demonstrations against the Israeli action are heckled and disrupted by counter demonstrators and cursed by passers by.

As nations lined up to condemn Israel over Monday morning’s naval raid on the Gaza-aid flotilla, rallies held from Kiryat Shmona to Eilat on Tuesday expressed solidarity with the IDF and “a unified front” against the country’s detractors.

At all the rallies, students waved Israeli flags and held up signs reading, “We stand with the IDF” and “Peace activists don’t beat people with metal rods,” ......
Around 1,000 students rallied at Ben-Gurion University. “We came with paint guns and got lynched,” read one sign.

On Tuesday evening, similar demonstrations were held from the North to the South, with word of the rallies going out via the Internet. Pro-IDF rallies were held in Kiryat Shmona, Tiberias, Hadera, Afula, Beit She’an, Netanya, Tel Aviv, in Gush Etzion, Jerusalem, Beersheba, Eilat and some 30 additional locations.

Have no illusions, the Israeli population is firmly behind Netanyahuh and if anything that support is growing. What is frightening is that the argument is increasingly being framed in ethnic terms with Arab Israeli's and Arab KMs being labelled as "fifth columnists" and "traitors"

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177205

The comments sections of the Jerusalem Post are quite shocking, not only for their ferocity but for the way they are condemning critics (particularly Arab Israeli critics) in racist and treasonous terms.

Time to take a stand Israel against MK traitors. Cant you see what they are doing undermining the Jewish state from within. All Israelis that commit acts of treason against the state should be in jail!This was TREASON! She even has the cheek to use a Jewish euphemism for doing "good deeds"-what she actually did was to seriously endanger her fellow countrymen, her soldiers by supporting this act and then lie with a straight face to the media! Indite her! get rid of her! She is a snake,but sadly in Israel there are many like her!

This one from someone in Jerusalem is attacking Netanyahuh for not being right wing enough!

She is animal, like with all the arab MKs, should be stripped of her parliamentary immunity, then sued, then thrown into prison, where she will await execution for being a traitor.It's time for Israel to stop shooting itself in the foot and stop arab MKs from acting against Israel's national interest.Today, by releasing even those on the flotilla who were about to lynch Israeli troops,Netanyahu just proved that he is not the right person to lead Israel. By releasing those terrorists, Netanyahu caved in under pressure and gave Turkey and all muslim terrorists a victory over Israel.BIBI GO HOME!!!

 

[tangentlama]

The Arab Israelis have been called those things for a very long time - it's not new.
Framing 'us' and 'them' using ethnic and religious terms is also nothing new.

 

[agricola]

This conflict is so asymmetrical that it defies even the term conflict. The death toll from operation caste lead in 2008 was Between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinians dead and 13 Israelis..

Conflict? This isn't a conflict. This is one sided annihilation.

This is actually incorrect. Cast Lead did cost 13 Israeli lives, but four of those were killed by the Israelis - so the total is 1170 humans killed by one side (to use the lower figure) versus 9 killed by the other.

 

[Pickman's model]

it shows a nice spirit by the israelis to boost their own casualties by 33% in an attempt to make it look not quite so one-sided.

 

[TAE]

The Arab Israelis have been called those things for a very long time - it's not new.
Framing 'us' and 'them' using ethnic and religious terms is also nothing new.

It's still out of order.

 

[Random]

it shows a nice spirit by the israelis to boost their own casualties by 33% in an attempt to make it look not quite so one-sided.

Like the English army at Bannockburn, the IDF are clearly discomfited by not being the underdogs.

 

[teqniq]

Originally Posted by DexterTCN
Did I hear that there were other ships going to test the blockade?

NY Times suggests so: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/world/middleeast/02flotilla.html

If anyone's interested, this from the comments to Craig Murray's blog

The 499GT MV Rachel Corrie still seems to be Cambodian flagged although her home port is Dundalk and she is owned by the Irish arm of the Free Gaza Movement.

As from December 2004, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) requires all vessels over 299GT to carry an AIS transponder on board, which transmits their position, speed and course, among some other static information, such as vessel’s name, dimensions and voyage details.

This AIS info is plotted on a Google map mostly in real time on a website developed and run by the University of the Aegean, www.marinetraffic.com

However, for some unidentified reason, no AIS data has been received from the MV Rachel Corrie since 01:15 am on Monday 31st May reporting she was sailing south from Malta (where you can see that Rainbow Warrior is currently moored).

Most likely she is out of marinetraffic.com's coverage. Although there are around 500 ships showing up in the Mediterranean east of Athens, all of them seem to be north of Saida in south Lebanon. This seems odd considering there probably should be a stream of ships heading to and from the Suez canal. And, of course, the other flotilla ships are not currently showing up.

It's interesting to see that the BBC used an AP graphic from the University of the Aegean here to plot the other flotilla ships.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/dhtml_slides/10/gaza_flotilla/img/istan_israel_5.gif

Posted by: Monty at June 2, 2010 12:20 PM

marinetraffic.com

No sign of the Rachel Corrie right now. Maybe they are still out of coverage?

E2A also from Murray's blog:

Why Was the Mavi Marmara Reflagged Just Before Sailing?

Contrary to virtually all media reports to date, it appears the Mavi Marmara was reflagged from Turkey to the Comoros Islands around 20 May, shortly before heading the peace flotilla.

Realpolitik perhaps? Who knows?

 

[dylans]

The Arab Israelis have been called those things for a very long time - it's not new.
Framing 'us' and 'them' using ethnic and religious terms is also nothing new.

No not new, but the intensity of feeling across the country is certainly growing. There is a climate of hysteria in the country right now.

While other activists from the Gaza aid flotilla have returned home, one is left facing death threats and abuse in Israel. Haneen Zuabi, a Palestinian member of the Israeli Knesset who was aboard the Mavi Marmara, is now under armed protection after nearly 500 people signed up to a Facebook page calling for her execution.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/03/gaza-flotilla-survivor-haneen-zuabi

She comments on this herself

The 41-year-old member of the Arab nationalist party Balad has also received death threats by phone and mail. "I am not scared," she said, speaking from her home town of Nazareth in northern Israel. "This is inherent here, it is not something that started yesterday. It is just harder and harsher now."

She also puts her finger on the cause of this crisis. Something I speculated on myself earlier in this thread and something that those blaming the protesters should consider.

Zuabi faces growing hostility for taking part in the Gaza aid flotilla, amid a climate of rage at what has been portrayed in Israel as a premeditated attack upon its soldiers by armed activists aboard the boats.

"Israel wanted many deaths to terrorise us and to send a message that no future aid convoys should try to break the siege of Gaza," she told journalists this week.

This is exactly what this was about. Netanyahuh is nothing short of a fascist and he is using tried and tested fascist tactics of lies and public manipulation and violence.

 

[audiotech]

Some respite from the Israeli propaganda machine. A report of a "life-changing" invention from the West Bank.

http://www.wimp.com/lifechanging/

 

[spring-peeper]

Some respite from the Israeli propaganda machine. A report of a "life-changing" invention from the West Bank.

http://www.wimp.com/lifechanging/

I have slow internet and I really don't trust a link from a site www.wimp.com.

Could you please quote some of it?

 

[editor]

On the Guardian:

The first British survivor of the assault on the Mavi Marmara Gaza aid ship to return to London has told of her terror as Israeli troops ignored SOS calls for medical aid and continued to fire live rounds at activists.

Sarah Colborne, director of campaigns and operations at the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, who was on board the Turkish ship when the Israeli navy mounted a raid early on Monday, gave a press conference in central London still wearing her grey prison fatigues from her spell in jail in Be'er Sheva, southern Israel. She described how she saw one man fatally wounded from a gun shot to the head and how passengers feared for their lives as Israeli troops trained laser sights on the activists through the ship's windows.

Colborne, 43, from London, insisted the activists on the boat were on a purely humanitarian mission and the passengers were aged between one and 89. She claimed:

• Unarmed activists were shot by Israelis using live ammunition;

• The death toll of nine is likely to rise, because some activists remain missing;

• The Israelis ignored calls over the Tannoy and on written signs calling for them stop firing and to evacuate the critically injured;

• The Israeli forces handcuffed members of the activists' medical team who were sent to help treat the injured.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/03/british-survivor-gaza-flotilla

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

At least to me, the thread could be summarised ...

Palestinians: Are we not human too, your brothers and sisters?

Canuck & co: Fuck no! You're a bunch of untermensch and towel heads.

O, rly?


I mean, srsly?