Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[tangentlama]

Shame on you, JohnnyCanuck for again declaring those on the thread opposing Israel are basically anti-semitic

More eyewitness reports from the Turks:-

Yalçın Şalal, who was aboard another ship in the flotilla, the Gazze-1, said they faced maltreatment at the hands of Israeli soldiers. “There were always guns pointed at our heads. We saw that guns were being shot on the Mavi Marmara and did not resist. A soldier hit me with a rifle butt, and my hand was injured. While we were detained, they also treated us poorly. We wanted water and food, but they did not provide any. They treated us like dogs,” he said.

Noting that they were asked why they had come to Israel, Şalal said they were forced to sign a document ensuring that they would not travel to Israel again.

Israel says their soldiers opened fire only when they boarded the Mavi Marmara and came under attack from peace activists onboard, but Tokalak says events transpired differently.

“They started shooting directly at the Mavi Marmara. They didn’t care if it was the front or back of the ship,” he said.

Yücel Köse, who was also on the Gazze, said they were very close to the Mavi Marmara when it was attacked. He said the soldiers used force to detain them, although they did not resist. “The ship was fired on. They [the soldiers] threw the injured into the sea. I heard that the soldiers were angered by our friends’ resistance and had thrown them into the sea,” he said. Explaining their transfer to prison, Köse said they were taken in armored vehicles in groups of two or three. “They deprived us of food and water,” he said.

An activist onboard the Gazze-1, Yaşar Çılgın, said they were forced to sign a document attesting that they would not travel to Israel again. “We have been deeply affected by the incident. We were forced to sign a document saying we will never go to Israel again,” he stated.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/mobile.do?load=wapDetay&link=211969

They did not travel to Israel. They were not intending to enter Israel. They were in international waters, and the Israelis forced them to enter Israel.

 

[tangentlama]

This is from an actual reply from the Israeli consulate:

About these missiles ... does anyone know if number include or exclude stones and marbles, or is Israel manipulating information to suit its purposes again?

 

[Flavour]

So what's the latest on the Turkish navy escorting another aid ship to Gaza? Is this going to happen or not? What's going on with the MV Rachel Corrie? I'd heard it was sabotaged in Cyprus by Mossad.

 

[tangentlama]

Regev finishes off his appearance on News 24 by claiming that there is no humanitarian crisis on Gaza, because they have chocolate and Korean air conditioning.

And smoked salmon (produced in Israel) and Aveda cosmetics for whitening skin and facial scrub (produced in Israel) but not coffee because apparently Israeli Military considers coffee to be a luxury item

Military bureaucrats enforcing Israel's blockade of Gaza allow frozen salmon filet, facial scrub and low-fat yogurt into the Hamas-ruled territory. Cilantro and instant coffee are another matter — they are banned as luxury items.

Over the past three years, Israel has determined down to the tiniest detail what gets into the Gaza Strip and to its population of 1.5 million, using secret guidelines to differentiate between humanitarian necessities and nonessential luxuries in its blockade meant to squeeze the Islamic militant group Hamas.

The results are often baffling.

"Frozen salmon — we never had it before the blockade," said perplexed salesman Abed Nasser, examining a frozen chunk of fish.

Critics have long maintained that Israel's blockade, imposed after Hamas' violent takeover of Gaza in 2007, has not just been confusing, but counterproductive. It has come under renewed scrutiny this week as hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists sail a flotilla to Gaza loaded with thousands of tons of goods.

Israeli Col. Moshe Levy, a senior military official dealing with Gaza, called the flotilla a "provocation" and said all necessary humanitarian aid already reaches Gaza. Israeli officials say they will stop the flotilla by hauling the ships to an Israeli port if they don't turn back.

Critics say the blockade has failed to dislodge Hamas and has hurt Gaza's poor and blocked reconstruction after Israel's devastating three-week military offensive in the winter of 2008-2009. A Palestinian industry report says the blockade has wiped out over 100,000 jobs in Gaza by banning raw materials and stifling trade.

With small exceptions for international aid projects, raw goods vital for trade and construction are banned. A biscuit factory cannot import margarine, and a tomato paste factory cannot bring in empty cans. While fruits, vegetables and frozen meats are let in, fresh meat, vinegar and jam, are not, said Sari Bashi of the Israeli rights group Gisha.

"There are enough quantities of basic food items in Gaza. But because there is a ban on raw materials needed for production and a ban on exporting finished products, people don't have enough money to buy things," she said. "That's why 80 percent of Gaza residents are dependent on international assistance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9101028

 

[sihhi]

They did not travel to Israel. They were not intending to enter Israel. They were in international waters, and the Israelis forced them to enter Israel.

Yes, the plan was Cypriot waters - international waters - Egyptian waters - Gaza's fishing port ... all miles away from Israel.

Also, Change you can still Feel.

Charlie Rose: Prime Minister Netanyahu was scheduled to come to Washington. He did not. He went back to Israel. There is a blockade. Should they end the blockade in lieu of what's happened here?

Joe Biden: I think Israel has an absolute right to deal with its security interest. I put all this back on two things: one, Hamas, and, two, Israel's need to be more generous relative to the Palestinian people who are in trouble in Gaza.
...
And so I mean again, look, you can argue whether Israel should have dropped people onto that ship or not and the - but the truth of the matter is, Israel has a right to know - they're at war with Hamas - has a right to know whether or not arms are being smuggled in. And up to now, Charlie, what's happened? They've said, "Here you go. You're in the Mediterranean. This ship - if you divert slightly north you can unload it and we'll get the stuff into Gaza." So what's the big deal here? What's the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza? Well, it's legitimate for Israel to say, "I don't know what's on that ship. These guys are dropping eight - 3,000 rockets on my people."

http://thepage.time.com/transcript-biden-interview-with-charlie-rose-june-2-2010-full-transcript/

 

[JimW]

Have we had this link on the 'arms cache' pics yet?
http://ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpre...reign-affairs-fakes-photos-of-seized-weapons/

The meta-data from the photos implies they were mostly all taken years ago except for the tiny butterfly knife

 

[Pickman's model]

Have we had this link on the 'arms cache' pics yet?
http://ibnkafkasobiterdicta.wordpre...reign-affairs-fakes-photos-of-seized-weapons/

The meta-data from the photos implies they were mostly all taken years ago except for the tiny butterfly knife

with all the weaponry israel's got, you'd have thought they could take a couple of pictures of that instead of sitting about going through old pictures.

 

[tangentlama]

Just got an email from a friend about this latest cover story from the IDF. Sent to me because he thinks that Ha'aretz won't print his comment about the context and meaning of 'shahid'.

IDF try to twist context and meaning, in the hope that we don't understand Arabic.

The IDF claim the video of this Turkish man proves he wanted to be a martyr. He has been on two other unsuccessful convoys to try to get humanitarian aid into Gaza. He explains that he was not lucky the first and second time. He's uses the term 'Shahid'.

He uses 'shahid' in it's literal sense, meaning 'witness'. He explains he was not able to be a witness the successful delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza, "a noble cause that benefits society".

IDF are saying the video means he wanted to be a martyr, and implies that he wanted to die in confrontation against Israel or something equally out of context with the aims of the Free Gaza missions, which are to successfully deliver humanitarian aid to a long-suffering people.

Video here: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...flotilla-activist-hoped-for-martydom-1.293953

 

[Knotted]

Al Jazeera have a report making sense of the events on the Mavi Marmara. It seems the activists took three comandos hostage before the IDF sent in troops backed up with live fire as seen in the IDF videos.

 

[frogwoman]

I have a mate whose uncles house was hit by one of these "rockets" - it bounced off the roof and fell to the ground

 

[past caring]

Al Jazeera have a report making sense of the events on the Mavi Marmara. It seems the activists took three comandos hostage before the IDF sent in troops backed up with live fire as seen in the IDF videos.

Were that the case I imagine it would have been offered by way of an explanation by the IDF prior to this.

 

[frogwoman]

This is from an actual reply from the Israeli consulate:

Is this Israel or North Korea?

 

[quimcunx]

Yes, the plan was Cypriot waters - international waters - Egyptian waters - Gaza's fishing port ... all miles away from Israel.

Also, Change you can still Feel.



http://thepage.time.com/transcript-biden-interview-with-charlie-rose-june-2-2010-full-transcript/

I think Israel has an absolute right to deal with its security interest.

- Joe Biden.

And again. What about Palestinian security? Surely they also then have the right to intercept any vehicle which might be conveying weapons for the Israelis to use on them? Why are they not allowed, or others acting on their behalf allowed, to blockade Israel? If Israel is ''at war with Hamas'' then surely Hamas is also at war with Israel and should have the same right to ''deal with its security interest''?

And, for that matter, either say Israel is at war with Palestine or Likud is at war with Hamas not Israel is at war with Hamas.

 

[tangentlama]

A new image has been released by IDF. Could this be a photoshopped fake?
There is something not right about the shadowing along the underside of the arm. See how the whole shadow comes from the knife, along the underside of the arm? Why would that shadow be exactly the same as it passes across the green-shirted man and the man in the complicated patterned top whose face is obscured by the hand of the knife-wielding man. There is also excessive shadowing above the arm.

It it a fake? Anyone from Guardian wants to send the image I have to them, I will. Otherwise, you can take it from Ha'aretz directly.

 

[treelover]

some of the posts on here are beginning to sound like Pravda, I don't know what happened on the ship, but why is it so hard to believe that there were a few 'radicals' who were prepared to retaliate if anything happened, the vast majoroty of the ship were the sort of people you meet at CND or international peace conferences, but maybe a few weren't. It doesn't justify Israels overall actions though which were criminal

 

[likesfish]

so some blokes talking what may or may not be macho bollocks.
if your alleged elite commandos had about as much tactical sense as the TA.
he and his mates would not have been able to hand out a beating

 

[Crispy]

Why would that shadow be exactly the same as it passes across the green-shirted man and the man in the complicated patterned top whose face is obscured by the hand of the knife-wielding man?

Because the picture has been taken with a flash, and the lens is very close to the flash, therefore the shadows appear to line up.

 

[Blagsta]

some of the posts on here are beginning to sound like Pravda, I don't know what happened on the ship, but why is it so hard to believe that there were a few 'radicals' who were prepared to retaliate if anything happened, the vast majoroty of the ship were the sort of people you meet at CND or international peace conferences, but maybe a few weren't. It doesn't justify Israels overall actions though which were criminal

Why mention it then?

 

[treelover]

Not sure what you mean, anyway, it would be more honest if some of the posters stood up and said they defended the right of the activists to retaliate with weapons against the IDF.

 

[danny la rouge]

it would be more honest if some of the posters stood up and said they defended the right of the activists to retaliate with weapons against the IDF.

Has somebody said they don't?

 

[Blagsta]

Not sure what you mean, anyway, it would be more honest if some of the posters stood up and said they defended the right of the activists to retaliate with weapons against the IDF.

Are you reading the same thread as me? Most people (apart from Spymaster) have defended their right to self defence.

 

[past caring]

Are you reading the same thread as me? Most people (apart from Spymaster) have defended their right to self defence.

Indeed, and I'll go a little further. My joy would have known no bounds had the protesters succeeded in dropping every last one of the IDF commandos over the side. Preferably having killed them first.

There you go.

 

[tangentlama]

Because the picture has been taken with a flash, and the lens is very close to the flash, therefore the shadows appear to line up.

There is no EXIF for the knife-wielding madman image.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Al Jazeera have a report making sense of the events on the Mavi Marmara. It seems the activists took three comandos hostage before the IDF sent in troops backed up with live fire as seen in the IDF videos.

Erm, that video you've linked to doesn't say that at all.

 

[Knotted]

Erm, that video you've linked to doesn't say that at all.

I think you'll have to navigate to find it. Go to "Middle East" section and click on "Both sides of Flotilla story". (sorry)

 

[dylans]

Indeed, and I'll go a little further. My joy would have known no bounds had the protesters succeeded in dropping every last one of the IDF commandos over the side. Preferably having killed them first.

There you go.

Seconded.

 

[Crispy]

There is no EXIF for the knife-wielding madman image.

There doesn't need to be, - you can tell due to the lighting. No shadows inside the rolled-up sleeve on the right. Specular highlights on shiny surfaces facing the lens (lens of the SLR camera, the knife guy's nose). Full lighting of downwards-facing surfaces (forearm on the right)

Is there a higher-resolution version?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

A new image has been released by IDF. Could this be a photoshopped fake?
There is something not right about the shadowing along the underside of the arm. See how the whole shadow comes from the knife, along the underside of the arm? Why would that shadow be exactly the same as it passes across the green-shirted man and the man in the complicated patterned top whose face is obscured by the hand of the knife-wielding man. There is also excessive shadowing above the arm.

It it a fake? Anyone from Guardian wants to send the image I have to them, I will. Otherwise, you can take it from Ha'aretz directly.

They were boarded in the middle of the night, as you can see in the last video report filed by Al Jazeera English's Jamal Elshayyal before communications were cut.



However, in the photo you can see daylight in the background. I've seen another photo of the same or similar group where there was what looked like a Saudi flag on the ground. I don't know if there were any Saudis on board the boat. They were mostly from Turkey.

And where is that guy? If he was on board the boat, why haven't they identified him and paraded him in front of the cameras? If that is such conclusive evidence, why haven't they proceeded to trial? Why have they released all those alleged "terrorists"? Could it possibly be because (a) in most cases, people were subjected to brutal attacks despite being non-violent and not resisting or (b) where people did resist, they would have a legal defence of self defence, so Israel doesn't want to put them on the stand.

Anyway, back to that photo: It's bollocks, basically. Classic misinformation propaganda.

 

[Crispy]

In light of all that: Photoshop: Unlikely. Completely irrelevant picture: Likely

 

[treelover]

Indeed, and I'll go a little further. My joy would have known no bounds had the protesters succeeded in dropping every last one of the IDF commandos over the side. Preferably having killed them first.

There you go.

so. why have so many posters spent ages on this thread, trying to diminish or deconstruct the actions of the activists on the deck,

btw, not surprised to see super-annuated trots and ex AFA supporting violent self defence