Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

There you go!

 

[1%er]

If someone came and gave you a sound spanking for being thick, I'm not sure anyone would find the spanker culpable.

LOL you really are an ignorant wanker, you claim it is OK for the Israelis to kill these people because the people shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So I am in your home and you shoot me, by your logic you are to blame

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

LOL you really are an ignorant wanker, you claim it is OK for the Israelis to kill these people because the people shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So I am in your home and you shoot me, by your logic you are to blame

Jesus you're dumb.

 

[cesare]

a nation created using violence and murder, sustained by using violence, murder and american money. i've not got any admiration at all.

A nation created for them. The original mistake is the fault of those that imperialistically carved it out from those already there, and handing it to them. I don't blame Israel for taking (and holding) what was offered. I don't blame the Palestinians from objecting (and trying to take it back). I blame those that fucking apportioned up the Middle East in the first place, and that are now doing a Pontius Pilate.

 

[Spymaster]

LOL you really are an ignorant wanker, you claim it is OK for the Israelis to kill these people because the people shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So I am in your home and you shoot me, by your logic you are to blame

That's not what he's said, tbf.

 

[Dandred]

Friend, you've been saying that to me for years, on whatever thread, basically about whatever the post. So with you, I go with the maxim, 'consider the source'.

If you sent me your friendship, I'd put it in a bag with a brick, and throw it into the canal.

Do you support the Israeli action or not?

 

[Blagsta]

My dismissive appraisal of some posters is based upon attempting to put forward a reasoned position, only to be met with personal attacks and half-baked, semi-logical claptrap.

Disingenuous. Again.

 

[Fedayn]

That's not what he's said, tbf.

What he has consitently done is blame the victims whilst not blaming the people who pulled the trigger after illegally storming a ship during an action to defend an illegal blockade.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Disingenuous. Again.

I'm sorry.

 

[audiotech]

Don't fall for the pathetic distractions dressed up as "humour".

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What he has consitently done is blame the victims whilst not blaming the people who pulled the trigger after illegally storming a ship during an action to defend an illegal blockade.

I fucking give up.

 

[weltweit]

A nation created for them. The original mistake is the fault of those that imperialistically carved it out from those already there, and handing it to them. I don't blame Israel for taking (and holding) what was offered. I don't blame the Palestinians from objecting (and trying to take it back). I blame those that fucking apportioned up the Middle East in the first place, and that are now doing a Pontius Pilate.

The whole story is pretty sad, no tragic, this recent incident also.

I thought there was a will to take some positive steps on this, Obama, Blair, and others seemed to have some enthusiasm for it.

It all seems to have petered out.

Why?

 

[Knotted]

And there's more to come:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...el-blockade-with-new-gaza-bound-ship-1.293616

 

[1%er]

About 12 hours ago you said this

I don't know enough about it to say with certainty one way or another.

And yet now 12 hours later you are still repeating the same things you said before making this statement, where you admit you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Fedayn]

I fucking give up.

If only you would.

 

[DotCommunist]

A nation created for them. The original mistake is the fault of those that imperialistically carved it out from those already there, and handing it to them. I don't blame Israel for taking (and holding) what was offered. I don't blame the Palestinians from objecting (and trying to take it back). I blame those that fucking apportioned up the Middle East in the first place, and that are now doing a Pontius Pilate.

Heh, a rather succinct summing up of western attitudes to the whole issue although I don't think Pilate was funding the zealots. Now that would make a good conspiracy theory 'All along Pilate kept funding the zealots so that he could divert funds from the imperial coffers to his own bank account'

 

[Blagsta]

I'm sorry.

No you're not. You love feeling misunderstood. Passive aggressive bullshit.

 

[discokermit]

I don't blame Israel for taking (and holding) what was offered.

irgun? the stern gang? murderers.

I blame those that fucking apportioned up the Middle East in the first place, and that are now doing a Pontius Pilate.

this is the root of it.

 

[Spymaster]

What he has consitently done is blame the victims whilst not blaming the people who pulled the trigger after illegally storming a ship during an action to defend an illegal blockade.

He hasn't done that either. Others have tried to suggest that this is what he's doing, but he's not. At best, he has questioned the wisdom of fighting gun-toting Israeli commandos with sticks, and the likelihood of such an action leading to deaths that may not have been caused by the initial illegal boarding alone.

It's a perfectly valid point too.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I just watched Jon Snow interviewing an Israeli spokesman. Near the end of the interview Snow asked him what Israel would do if Turkey did as they had said they would and send a warship with the next convoy.

The spokesman said that this was not serious and asked Jon where he got the information from. Time was up then and the interview ended.

Where did this information come from? I have not heard it and I have been following the story.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Nice to just see Jon Snow treating that Regev vermin with the contempt he deserves.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

My post 1182. Maybe it got missed first time through.

It's not that simplistic.

If a thief sticks a gun in your ribs and asks for your money, you have two choices.

If you don't give up the money and he shoots you, it's arguable that that could have been avoided, had you done as asked. So in a limited sense, your choice played a role in the consequence of the trigger being pulled.

But the overriding situation was, is, and remains illegal. The thief has no color of right allowing him to do what he is doing, and your resistance to his act may have led to your death, but your resistance does not somehow convert his shooting you into a legal or justified act.

This applies in so many areas. If you leave your car unlocked with a laptop sitting on the seat, you are a damn fool, and no one will be very surprised when it is stolen. But your leaving the door unlocked does not change the essential nature of what the thief does, which is to commit the crime of theft.

 

[1%er]

Johnny Canuck3 is the kind of person that if he belonged to a book club and everyone sat down and started discussing the book they were reading, he would argue that everyone else in the club is wrong because they are talkng about a book they have read, but he hasn't.

 

[Fedayn]

He hasn't done that either. Others have tried to suggest that this is what he's doing, but he's not. At best, he has questioned the wisdom of fighting gun-toting Israeli commandos with sticks, and the likelihood of such an action leading to deaths that may not have been caused by the initial illegal boarding alone.

It's a perfectly valid point too.

Read what he wrote..... His consistent criticism of the victims says more about his claims he's not blaming them....

 

[Spymaster]

Where did this information come from? I have not heard it and I have been following the story.

A commentator on TV mentioned the possibility of a Turkish naval escort and questioned what would have happened had that been the case.

It was a chuck away line from some random on the box, rather than any official Turkish response. Seems Snow has just run with it.

 

[cesare]

Heh, a rather succinct summing up of western attitudes to the whole issue although I don't think Pilate was funding the zealots. Now that would make a good conspiracy theory 'All along Pilate kept funding the zealots so that he could divert funds from the imperial coffers to his own bank account'

I suspect that Pilate took whatever machiavellian measures necessary to keep peace in the region & the Romans in charge.

 

[agricola]

I just watched Jon Snow interviewing an Israeli spokesman. Near the end of the interview Snow asked him what Israel would do if Turkey did as they had said they would and send a warship with the next convoy.

The spokesman said that this was not serious and asked Jon where he got the information from. Time was up then and the interview ended.

Where did this information come from? I have not heard it and I have been following the story.

There were definately early (ie: yesterday) comments along those lines, though from unnamed Turkish Government sources:

Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.

 

[Dandred]

My post 1182. Maybe it got missed first time through.

I missed you are a cunt, .......no, that got through to everybody.

How can you justify the Israeli actions?

 

[Fedayn]

A commentator on TV mentioned the possibility of a Turkish naval escort and questioned what would have happened had that been the case.

It was a chuck away line from some random on the box, rather than any official Turkish response. Seems Snow has just run with it.

It appears that, according to Snow, the Turkish PM said it.......

 

[1%er]

My post 1182. Maybe it got missed first time through.

You really are confirming all the stereotypes about North Americans