Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[cesare]

My point is that they probably aren't thinking "who is this?", more "WTF, we're being attacked, we have to defend ourselves".

I go further and suggest that the thinking time is actually so short as to be negligible for those directly confronted (e.g. on deck). Adrenaline kicks in, and there's a physical reaction of fight or flight.

 

[DotCommunist]

My point is that they probably aren't thinking "who is this?", more "WTF, we're being attacked, we have to defend ourselves".

yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that if you are on a boat delivering aid to palestinians and you wake up to gunfire you are probably make an accurate guess that it is the IDF and that that would put the fear of god into you as you know what they are like when they come in firing. Hence fight-for-life mode kicks in.

 

[elbows]

So what do we know about these 'paintball guns'?

 

[Fedayn]

So with you, I go with the maxim, 'consider the source'.

bit like the shite you've spouted on this thread....

 

[1%er]

My point is that they probably aren't thinking "who is this?", more "WTF, we're being attacked, we have to defend ourselves".

But they have had weeks to look at ways of stopping this without killing people. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing, they have had weeks to think about it.

This was a premeditated and planned assault not some spontaneous response

 

[DotCommunist]

the official line is that the paintball guns were for show and the deaths started when the second team pulled sidearms. The truth? well we shall have to wait and see on the truth of how these soldiers were armed

 

[cesare]

So what do we know about these 'paintball guns'?

Not much. But when I watched the video right at the start of the thread; I certainly didn't realise they were paintball guns ... they looked like proper hardarse rifle type efforts.

 

[quimcunx]

But they have had weeks to look at ways of stopping this without killing people. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing, they have had weeks to think about it.

This was a premeditated and planned assault not some spontaneous response

I think he's talking about the aid workers, not the IDF.

 

[1%er]

I think he's talking about the aid workers, not the IDF.

LOL yes rereading the post I see what you mean

 

[Dr Jon]

The Israelis are lying, murdering scum.
The Israelis I met in India were arrogant, racist and obnoxious.
Evidently a nation of twats.

 

[Spymaster]

only if the blockade is legal. which it isn't

if the blockade is legal, which this one isn't

Israel's blockade is illegal.

Ok, fair enough.

Have you not been reading agricola's links to the applicable law?

No, tbh. I joined the thread late when it was already very long and didn't fancy wading through 40-odd pages of biased speculation from the usual crowd, in the hope of finding a few gems of wisdom from the odd well-balanced poster (like Agricola).

 

[tarannau]

The Israelis are lying, murdering scum.
The Israelis I met in India were arrogant, racist and obnoxious.
Evidently a nation of twats.

I'm deeply uncomfortable with borderline anti-semitic pish like this. Criticising a government and their actions is one thing, generalising wildly and taking vigorous dislike of a whole country and its inhabitants is another. Basing your view of Israel on the actions of a few backpacking types is liking judging the UK based on Max Gogarty and mates.

 

[Jonti]

In order to know that, you also have to have the ability to read words in my posts that aren't there.

That's a lie Johnny ~ you are a well known apologist for murder on these boards. Perhaps you have forgotten your reaction to the murder of your own country man Major Paeta Hess-Von Kruedener.

The name is easily searched for ... you should refresh your memory; or I can post a link if your memory/honesty continues to fail you.

 

[teqniq]

More eywitness accounts here

 

[DexterTCN]

However, if a nation does break the law and shoves a gun in your ribs, you're back in the same situation as the thief. Do you do as asked, or not?

It's not a thief though, is it? It's a serial killer.

Your analogy of a thief is disingenuous, and your posts on this matter thoroughly questionable.

The IDF filmed the whole thing from start to finish, I wonder if we'll get to see that.

A flotilla of hate, some twunt is saying on world service.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's a lie Johnny ~ you are a well known apologist for murder on these boards. Perhaps you have forgotten your reaction to the murder of your own country man Major Paeta Hess-Von Kruedener.

The name is easily searched for ... you should refresh your memory; or I can post a link if your memory/honesty continues to fail you.

Am I a non-specific apologist for murder, as in, I will make apologies for any murderer anywhere; or did you have something more specific in mind?

 

[cesare]

Ok, fair enough.

No, tbh. I joined the thread late when it was already very long and didn't fancy wading through 40-odd pages of biased speculation from the usual crowd, in the hope of finding a few gems of wisdom from the odd well-balanced poster (like Agricola).

I don't know who 'the usual crowd' are, because I don't often post in World Politics. But my impression is that the thread has been remarkably restrained given the subject matter, and has got some useful information/links/videos.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Your analogy of a thief is disingenuous, and your posts on this matter thoroughly questionable..

Well, you can say that, but simply saying so, doesn't convince me that the analogy is wrong.

 

[tarannau]

I don't know who 'the usual crowd' are, because I don't often post in World Politics. But my impression is that the thread has been remarkably restrained given the subject matter, and has got some useful information/links/videos.

Indeed. It's a lazy and misrepresentative slur, especially since wannabe controversialist Spymaster is apparently known as 'cunty' even to his family.

 

[DexterTCN]

Well, you can say that, but simply saying so, doesn't convince me that the analogy is wrong.

Perhaps you'd be so good as to justify your comparison of a thief with some reasoning and point out the faults in my suggested replacement of a serial killer?

 

[cesare]

The Israelis are lying, murdering scum.
The Israelis I met in India were arrogant, racist and obnoxious.
Evidently a nation of twats.

I've become increasingly unenamoured of the Israeli government over the past few years ... but this kind of toss just adds fuel to the flames & provides the zionists with evidence to support their 'disagreement = anti-semiticism' schtick.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Perhaps you'd be so good as to justify your comparison of a thief with some reasoning and point out the faults in my suggested replacement of a serial killer?

I have about as much desire to do that, as I would of rolling down a hill in a sack filled with half-melted fudge brownies.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I have about as much desire to do that, as I would of rolling down a hill in a sack filled with half-melted fudge brownies.

What if you were thrown to a gaggle of fudge brownie loving buxom lasses after your roll down the hill? G'wan, you'd love it, admit it.....

 

[Spymaster]

Indeed. It's a lazy and misrepresentative slur....

Yeah alright!

.... especially since wannabe controversialist Spymaster is apparently known as 'cunty' even to his family.

Cheap.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What if you were thrown to a gaggle of fudge brownie loving buxom lasses after your roll down the hill? G'wan, you'd love it, admit it.....

That would put the operation into a completely different light. I would, of course, want to be wearing a crash helmet throughout the procedure.

 

[tarannau]

And your dismissive appraisal of the thread and posters involved, based on admittedly not being arsed to read the preceding contributions, wasn't?

Harsh but fair given your antics I'd say. We both played provocative and let's leave it that given the thread subject

You have got to wonder why the Israelis were so swift to launch a duff PR campaign, restrict access to their prisoners and control media access though, haven't you? All that time and they've found a stash of knives barely more numerous, and certainly less vicious looking, than the ones in my kitchen.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I've become increasingly unenamoured of the Israeli government over the past few years ....

You've fallen out of love with Israel?

 

[Knotted]

What's the betting that some of those killed were not aboard the Mavi Marmara?

 

[agricola]

What's the betting that some of those killed were not aboard the Mavi Marmara?

There were reports that the (Greek) captain of one of the other boats had been shot, will try and find it.

edit: found it:

He said the Greek captain of one of the smaller vessels, the 8000, had been shot and two others were injured. But he had no information about injuries on the other vessels and said they were struggling to get any information from the Israelis to give to worried families of the activists.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/31/israeli-attacks-gaza-flotilla-activists

 

[two sheds]

Watch the first of the two videos below. It shows you how the deck was being used for sleeping. There were sleeping people, in their sleeping bags when the Israelis began firing upon the vessel, prior to their attempts to board.

Everyone in the Israeli military knew there were people sleeping in sleeping-bags on deck of the Mavi Mamara aid-vessel.

Don't disagree, my post was aimed at JC3's dehumanisation of the peace activists. I understand that he has a phrase for the Palestinians that shows exactly where he stands.

I see the attack as having the moral equivalence of a paramilitary force attacking ambulance workers who are on their way to help victims on a housing estate. And it's telling that it's the Law & Order brigade who are on the side of the terrorists again.