Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Johnny Canuck3]

All remartkably easy from the confines of your life in Vancouver..

Just as it's easy for you to be a palestinian warrior from the comfort of your union job in Britain.

In the face of warnings from the IDF, the occupants of the ship would give some thought to the potential consequences of sailing, in spite of the warnings.

 

[agricola]

I wonder what sas would make of that given his drooling frothing outbursts yesterday....

Dont worry, he is probably readying a massive treatise to be posted the moment his ban finishes. I would hazard a guess it has the word CUNT at the top and bottom of it as well.

 

[Spymaster]

Self-defence = stupid.

Assuming it was self defence of course. But even if so, the best defence against armed commandos is not to hit them with sticks.

 

[Fedayn]

Just as it's easy for you to be a palestinian warrior from the comfort of your union job in Britain.

In the face of warnings from the IDF, the occupants of the ship would give some thought to the potential consequences of sailing, in spite of the warnings.

Where am I being a Palestinian warrior? Take your time now.... Self-defence is enshrined in law, pretty simple even for you to get your head round? Perhaps you should get rid of your continuing wilful displays of ignorance and find out what the people on that ship actually thought instead of claiming you know what they must have/have not thought.

And I don't have a 'union job' you clueless buffoon.

 

[cesare]

The operative choice gets made when the plan gets made, and gets made again when the IDF issues warnings about not to proceed.

The theoretical choice gets made in advance. Do we proceed or not, even though the Israelis are issuing warnings. Obv, yes, they proceeded.

They could reasonably expect Israel to carry out their threats. Did they expect Israel to carry out their threats in international waters ... possibly. I'm still not sure where that expectation could reasonably kick in as a possibility. I asked Sas and I'm now asking you ... where can you reasonably expect Israel to start their (illegal) 'defensive' manouevres in international waters? 20 miles out? 40 miles out? 100 miles out?

At what point in international waters should these aid workers have been setting watch against being boarded, to buy themselves thinking time?

 

[Dandred]

Just as it's easy for you to be a palestinian warrior from the comfort of your union job in Britain.

In the face of warnings from the IDF, the occupants of the ship would give some thought to the potential consequences of sailing, in spite of the warnings.

There were in INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

 

[Fedayn]

Assuming it was self defence of course. But even if so, the best defence against armed commandos is not to hit them with sticks.

How else do you define people trying to stop/attack/remove illegal boarders from their ship?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

you clueless buffoon.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Fedayn]

Dont worry, he is probably readying a massive treatise to be posted the moment his ban finishes. I would hazard a guess it has the word CUNT at the top and bottom of it as well.

You reckon he signs it on top as well as on the bottom then?

 

[silverfish]

What happened on the other two vessels the IDF boarded peacefully (ie not shooting)

 

[Fedayn]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Yes, because being drunk 2 weeks ago means i'm wrong here. This gets even better and better....

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, because being drunk 2 weeks ago means i'm wrong here. This gets even better and better....

Well, we can either discuss issues, or go to the sandbox with personal insults etc. Doesn't matter much to me which way you want to play it.

 

[agricola]

Yes, because being drunk 2 weeks ago means i'm wrong here. This gets even better and better....

who has the union job in that picture? i am seriously confused.

 

[Spymaster]

How else do you define people trying to stop/attack/remove illegal boarders from their ship?

I told you already.

When the boarders are armed to the teeth with real guns and happen to be the IDF, I define the people that try to remove them with sticks, as stupid.

 

[Fedayn]

Well, we can either discuss issues, or go to the sandbox with personal insults etc. Doesn't matter much to me which way you want to play it.

Well perhaps you might not want to make such stupid, clueless, factually incorrect claims about my work. Maybe start there eh?!

 

[cesare]

I said nothing about law being on their side. I talked about power and might being on their side. If you go back to the original analogy about cops, I talked about how on a dark night, if a cop stops you and makes demands, even if he's overstepped his authority in doing so, one cannot escape the fact that he is a man with a gun.

It was your analogy of cops with guns. You originally deployed the Israel = law enforcement analogy ... without that, I doubt you'd have had the reaction you did.

 

[Fedayn]

I told you already.

When the boarders are armed to the teeth with real guns and happen to be the IDF, I define the people that try to remove them with sticks, as stupid.

If your wife was threatened with a knife would you stand there and do nothing?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It was your analogy of cops with guns. You originally deployed the Israel = law enforcement analogy ... without that, I doubt you'd have had the reaction you did.

Go reread it without the emotive reading-in. It was about a person authorized to carry a weapon, making demands of you, whether those demands are authorized by law or not.

 

[Fedayn]

who has the union job in that picture? i am seriously confused.

All three of us are union reps but work in the civil service.

 

[DotCommunist]

Which doesn't change the fact that when a stronger force comes at you in an illegal manner, you must make a choice to resist, or to not resist. In making that choice, it's reasonable to assume that you will weigh the options and consequences of either choice.

which, when woken up by gunfire from a force known to get away with murder, would be your choice?

 

[agricola]

I told you already.

When the boarders are armed to the teeth with real guns and happen to be the IDF, I define the people that try to remove them with sticks, as stupid.

Dropping soldiers individually into that mob is what was the most stupid thing about this whole show, tbh.

 

[cesare]

Which doesn't change the fact that when a stronger force comes at you in an illegal manner, you must make a choice to resist, or to not resist. In making that choice, it's reasonable to assume that you will weigh the options and consequences of either choice.

No.

There's not always 'thinking time' when you're being attacked.

 

[agricola]

All three of us are union reps but work in the civil service.

bloody hell... i am bald and wear glasses, do i have a union job as well?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If your wife was threatened with a knife would you stand there and do nothing?

I'd fight.

But if someone told me in advance that I'd be knifed if I walked down a certain street, I'd think twice about walking down that street, unless I had a strong motivation to do it for some reason.

 

[Dandred]

What happened on the other two vessels the IDF boarded peacefully (ie not shooting)

As their is no media allowed because of the Israeli censorship, we don't know.... I wonder why no media has been open to the masses......... maybe you can guess?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No.

There's not always 'thinking time' when you're being attacked.

If you're warned that you will most likely be attacked if you proceed, and you proceed, one can assume that a lot of hard thinking has gone into the decision, in advance.

 

[Fedayn]

I'd fight.

But if someone told me in advance that I'd be knifed if I walked down a certain street, I'd think twice about walking down that street, unless I had a strong motivation to do it for some reason.

So we have established that, probably without thinking you'd fight. Ok. But we aren't talking about a certain street, we're talking about international waters. Where when pirates do the same we're up in arms, but when the Israelis do the same we somehwo try and lay a notable element of responsibility on the victims. It doesn't fucking matter is the Israelis promised them they'd board, to allow bullying is to condone it.

I gotta say i'm glad you weren't advising the Montgomery Bus Boycotters.... "Oooooh best not, they might hit you, not to metnion they'll get damn angry".

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

which, when woken up by gunfire from a force known to get away with murder, would be your choice?

I would make the important decision when I decided to set sail in spite of warnings; knowing pretty much with a certainty that although I don't have the exact timing, I know that the commandos and the gunfire will be coming.

 

[Dandred]

Johnny is just trolling.


A bored, sad, man, at home, arguing on the internet with the most provocative thing he has....





Just don't reply......



Why else would he come here when he has nothing to say...............



Israel's actions are disgusting.

That is it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So we have established that, probably without thinking you'd fight. Ok. But we aren't talking about a certain street, we're talking about international waters.".

We're talking about suddenly being waylaid by a man with a knife, versus a situation where you have advance warning that a man with a knife is waiting up a particular street.