Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[ViolentPanda]

Apparently that did happen. Sadly it didn't end that way

They're bloody lucky. Helicopters are very easy to de-stabilise.

 

[danny la rouge]

In what way is it out of context?

It isn't the start of events. It is intended to give the impression that unprovoked violence was unleashed on randomly dangling commandos.

 

[YouSir]

They're bloody lucky. Helicopters are very easy to de-stabilise.

Good thing about attacking aid-workers, their first thought is unlikely to be 'let's take down that chopper'.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Time to let a few loose.

And, if they're really lucky, they might hit a shepherd's hut because, despite what Sass implies, the toll from qassams is so low that it's barely worth mentioning, except if you're trying to justify a disproportionately-violent reaction or action by the state of Israel.

 

[dylans]

Thats the delivery system? a pair of rails?

That's crap

Yeah the Qassams are pretty crap. Hezbollah have Katyusha's which are a bit better

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thats the delivery system? a pair of rails?

That's crap

Quite. It's the adult equivalent of launching a bottle-rocket from a milk bottle.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Good thing about attacking aid-workers, their first thought is unlikely to be 'let's take down that chopper'.

That is a failing on the part of aid workers as a breed, I've found.

 

[dylans]

Quite. It's the adult equivalent of launching a bottle-rocket from a milk bottle.

You just can't get the parts these days

 

[ViolentPanda]

You just can't get the parts these days

First time I saw a Qassam, it reminded me of my teenage experiments with home-made explosives and delivery systems, that's how unimpressive they are.
Still, it's what they make with what's at hand.

 

[Spymaster]

It isn't the start of events. It is intended to give the impression that unprovoked violence was unleashed on randomly dangling commandos.

Ok. So you reckon they'd been on board for a while?

Yes its possible that the commandos were heavy handed right from the start and the protestors were defending themselves (didn't look like that to me though).

It's also possible that an otherwise peaceful protest contained elements of nutters that were only too pleased to kick-off once given the opportunity, and nobody who's been on protests would deny that these people exist.

Who knows, I'm just not jumping on the usual U75 bandwagon (protestors fluffy, commandos/policemen/Israel cunts).

The boats shouldn't have been boarded and the boarders shouldn't have been attacked, is my current position, but that may change as more info becomes available.

 

[Citizen66]

More bizarre is the idea that we are supposed to feel sorry for the poor highly trained special forces soldiers being attacked by poets and artists and intellectuals.

One thing we know about Israeli forces is they don't go in for paint guns and harsh words. This is the same IDF who bulldoze houses and use phosphorous on schools and level entire streets and sent assassins around the world. Understatement is not their style

It's obvious that this was deliberate and calculated. They are sick of these bloody activists embarrassing them and they wanted to make a statement. Come here and we will kill you. .

They've also got previous.

The Attorney General was called upon to consider the prosecution of five senior Israeli officers after an inquest jury found that a British student had been murdered by one of their soldiers.

In a rare move, the coroner, Andrew Reid, concluded the inquest into Tom Hurndall's death by revealing that he would write to Lord Goldsmith to explore further legal action relating to the 22-year-old's death.

Mr Hurndall * a photojournalism student who travelled to Gaza along with a group of peace activists * was trying to save children from a volley of bullets when he was hit in the head in April 2003. He never recovered consciousness and died nine months later in a hospital in London.

More here.

And here:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=266960

 

[selamlar]

Comment from a thread here:



Anyone else heard this?

Yeah. There was a rebuttal on the news over here earlier. They ain't gonna, or at least are currently saying they ain't gonna.

Here you go:

He ruled out deploying Turkish warships to the Mediterranean

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/mobile.do?load=wapDetay&link=211719

 

[Knotted]

Interesting little discussion on Democracy Now. In particular, comments by Amira Hass and Ali Abuminah are worth listening to.

 

[danny la rouge]

Ok. So you reckon they'd been on board for a while?

I reckon shots were fired before the ship was boarded. I don't see dangling commandos as an inconsequential event. And I think the aid workers/protesters were reacting to events.

Nobody is saying they were fluffy. I'm not. What I'm saying is that brave, unarmed people were prepared to try to repel an attack from Israeli commandos. Those commandos were illegally storming a ship carrying aid supplies in international waters.

Imagine for a moment this happened off the Korean peninsula. Imagine North Korean commandos had fired upon, then boarded an aid ship in international waters. Any unarmed aid workers who tried to repel the assault would be heroes. They would be just as lauded in the states as the passengers on the "4th plane" on 9/11 who said "let's roll" with a steward's trolly.

 

[1%er]

I don't think this has been posted yet it is an Israeli explaining on Al Jazaara why their .

It is a little disappointing in that he isn't challenged about the legality of the blockage

 

[Spymaster]

Imagine for a moment this happened off the Korean peninsula. Imagine North Korean commandos had fired upon, then boarded an aid ship in international waters. Any unarmed aid workers who tried to repel the assault would be heroes.

I'd think they were cunts. Especially if the result was 10 dead mates.

 

[agricola]

Ok. So you reckon they'd been on board for a while?

Yes its possible that the commandos were heavy handed right from the start and the protestors were defending themselves (didn't look like that to me though).

It's also possible that an otherwise peaceful protest contained elements of nutters that were only too pleased to kick-off once given the opportunity, and nobody who's been on protests would deny that these people exist.

Who knows, I'm just not jumping on the usual U75 bandwagon (protestors fluffy, commandos/policemen/Israel cunts).

The boats shouldn't have been boarded and the boarders shouldn't have been attacked, is my current position, but that may change as more info becomes available.

TBH I think the other ships were boarded and they left the big one until last - giving people on it plenty of time to get on deck, tool up and organize themselves (which is why if you look at the footage there are so many people around, especially the cameras).

This fact, that the IDF still dropped individual soldiers into that situation despite clearly knowing what the situation was (since you would definately have been able to see it from the chopper, and you were able to see it from the gunboats) is what makes this unforgiveable. These deaths and injuries - to everyone involved - were eminently preventable.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'd think they were cunts. Especially if the result was 10 dead mates.

And turn the other cheek gets no dead mates? Didn't work in Peterloo or Armritsar. The firing had already begun. They were trying to disarm the assailants (commandos). Good on them, I say.

 

[agricola]

Hurrah! Regev on News 24 again.

 

[Citizen66]

In what way is it out of context?

The released footage is what IDF want the world to see. It isn't a documentary.

 

[DexterTCN]

I've not read the whole thread so I may have missed this:-

William Hague was saying on News24 there that one Brit has already been 'deported'. That would be Lauren Booth I would think but I haven't seen any names.

 

[Spymaster]

They were trying to disarm the assailants (commandos). Good on them, I say.

I'm not sure I believe that.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not sure I believe that.

What on earth do you think was going on, then?

 

[agricola]

What on earth do you think was going on, then?

TBH I think they couldnt believe there were lone IDF commandos being dropped into the middle of their mob, and decided to give them a bit of payback for the past fifty years.

 

[DexterTCN]

Surprise birthday party.

 

[danny la rouge]

TBH I think they couldnt believe there were lone IDF commandos being dropped into the middle of their mob, and decided to give them a bit of payback for the past fifty years.

"Mob". The mob here are the commandos attacking an aid convoy in international waters.

 

[Spymaster]

What on earth do you think was going on, then?

I'm just prepared to consider the possibility that there were elements on the ship who, under the guise of "Aid Workers", were simply trouble makers who were more than happy to attack Israeli's (maybe only there to do so), relished the opportunity when they saw the troops swinging down the ropes, and set about them with iron bars, knives and chairs thus eliciting a lethal response.

 

[Hulot]

I'd think they were cunts. Especially if the result was 10 dead mates.

And if the result of not resisting was ten Palestinian children dead for the want of vital supplies? My "if" is highly speculative, but it's not an easy calculation to weigh up on the spur of the moment in the midst of panic, is it?

 

[Citizen66]

I'm just prepared to consider the possibility that there were elements on the ship who, under the guise of "Aid Workers", were simply trouble makers <snip>

Where were their guns and bombs to take on the soldiers?

I mean if it was me planning on an action like that, I'd give myself a fighting chance from the outset.

 

[DexterTCN]

The BBC is saying

Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire.

Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said.

Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza.