Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[Pickman's model]

The odd part about that article is that - buried as it is below the usual Phillips rubbish - even she appears to concede that the tactics used were absolutely shit, albeit she doesnt take it to its logical conclusion of questioning whether the raid (and its timing, the location and in terms of the tactics used) was justified.

Everything bad that happened on the raid was as the direct consequence of the tactics used by the Israelis.

i cannot conceive of a situation so dire that the arrival of a load of israeli commandos would not make it worse.

 

[Deareg]

Fuck off Lynch. Anyone who supports murdering scum is completely beyond the pale.

oh the fucking irony

 

[Maidmarian]

Hey , it's OK folks ----- ONLY one ship was involved & the Israelis were AMBUSHED ! (BBC News 24 ---now).

 

[Pickman's model]

Hey , it's OK folks ----- ONLY one ship was involved & the Israelis were AMBUSHED ! (BBC News 24 ---now).

 

[sihhi]

Leftwing US Harry's Place socialist Gene

Gene 31 May 2010, 1:40 pm
A convoy that began with chants of:
“Intifada, intifada, intifada!
Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews! The army of Mohammed will return!”
was not in any sense a peaceful mission, and this ending was all too predictable.

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/05/31/israel-argue-away/#comments

Leftist blog personality Ben Cohen:

the international supporters of Hamas gathered on the Mavi Marmara were hellbent on assaulting/lynching/kidnapping IDF personnel.

http://blog.z-word.com/

Right-wing media activist David Vance

Looks like the Flotilla won't be floating any closer to Gaza. Did you catch the OUTRAGE expressed by Humphyrs at Israeli spokesman Mark Regev just after 8am? Humphrys repeated the allegation from the Hamas enablers on the Flotilla that they were attacked in the first instance, whereas Regev pointed out that it was the "activists" who had done the attacking. This has been a carefully engineered publicity stunt by the cabal of Jew-haters, extreme Islamists and hard leftists on this Flotilla and we can now be sure that the BBC will do everything possible to further demonise Israel and present the Flotilla "activists" as victims. The truth is that through their support for Hamas, they collude with the victim-makers. The BBC despises Israel and this will become apparent as the day progresses. Like Regev, I regret the loss of life that has taken place but more to the point I am revolted by the BBC coverage.

http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/

Canadian rightwing commentator Jonathan Kay

If Israel truly had wanted to “massacre” the Hamas sympathizers and fellow travellers aboard a six-ship Gaza-bound flotilla, the operation would not have been complicated. The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) would have used the trusty North Korean solution: Torpedo the ships and watch them sink to the bottom of the sea. That’s certainly what Hamas would have done to a boatload of Jews, if it got the chance.

Even Israel arguably would have been within its rights to seize and destroy a ship being sent toward Gazan waters in defiance of an international embargo, especially after giving abundant warnings to the leaders of the largely Turkish-based Free Gaza Movement, which had sent the flotilla, that they would not be permitted to sail to Hamas-controlled territory.

But that’s not how Israel operates. Instead, it sent commandos to seize control of the ships and bring them safely to Israeli waters. Israeli officials had even prepared air-conditioned accommodations for the activists, and had made arrangements to deliver legitimate aid supplies to Gaza.

According to the IDF, not all of the activists on board the ships were the pacifists they claimed to be. Though the Free Gaza leaders said they would not resist Israeli enforcement of the embargo, some of them fought the Israeli boarding parties with iron clubs — as confirmed by video that has been made available to the media. More seriously, it is claimed that at least one of the activists took two handguns from the Israelis and fired at the soldiers. In the melee, at least 10 activists were believed to have been killed, and several Israeli commandos wounded.

If this narrative stands up, then every drop of blood spilled on Monday morning rests on the hands of those activists who initiated the deadly exchange. When you attack Israeli soldiers — or at any soldiers — with lethal force, they will respond in kind.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/31/jenin-on-the-high-seas

 

[Maidmarian]

Sorry , didn't catch the guy's name , but he was "Live from Jerusalem".

Think he was telling porkies ?

 

[dylans]

It has been pointed out several times that demos against the action HAVE been called & you seem to keep missing that.

Sorry I'm not deliberately missing that claim. Someone also said there are riots "as we type" Can you provide a link to this please

 

[likesfish]

I reckon that's just how things happen. We're all used to Hollywood action movies where these operations are flawlessly choreographed for us. The reality of slipping down a rope from a helicopter onto a moving ship full of hostile people is always going to be messy, unless you're Arnie.

actually played terrorist on the sir lancelot once against sbs/seals .
thought we'd give them a kicking daylight calm sea can't sneak up on us
bag over the head plasti cuffed before I knew what was happening

they did'nt use a helicopter which tends to take away the element of suprise

 

[agricola]

Sorry , didn't catch the guy's name , but he was "Live from Jerusalem".

Think he was telling porkies ?

It was Danny Aylon, a deputy foriegn minister. Interestingly he admitted (as Melanie Phillips had reported) that they boarded the "armada of hate", this convoy of murderous anti-semites smuggling deadly cement and contraband dental equipment, armed with paintball guns.

 

[sihhi]

Sorry I'm not deliberately missing that claim. Someone also said there are riots "as we type" Can you provide a link to this please

10 seconds

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177038

Yes, they are small but they exist.

eta:

More resistance, more blood:

http://palsolidarity.org/2010/05/12604/

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896946,00.html

 

[danny la rouge]

What always suprises me is that the most vocal defenders of Israeli state actions are totally unconnected to it by blood or birth etc. Not singling Sass out (he might have connections for all I know) but the repeated r/w vocalists who really have no business defending or endorsing state actions then do.

What have they to gain, where is the vested interest. Very strange.

It's because the Israelis are seen as a Westernised, "modernising" force in the region. The Palestinians are "savages" who need to be "civilized", in much the same way as the Native Americans needed to be subdued and civilized by the European settlers. The parallels are startling: denial of the historical claim to the land, "reservations", client leaders that are tolerated as long as they "behave", and so on.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

It was Danny Aylon, a deputy foriegn minister. Interestingly he admitted (as Melanie Phillips had reported) that they boarded the "armada of hate", this convoy of murderous anti-semites smuggling deadly cement and contraband dental equipment, armed with paintball guns.

Same Danny Aylon who caused a diplomatic incident with Turkey a few months ago presumably.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-45370020100113

 

[Lo Siento.]

(a) how exactly do you ambush a load of heavily armed soldiers in a confined space with no cover or escape routes?

(b) if a group of people want to martyr themselves for make a media spectacle, how psychotically desperate to kill people to you have to be to give it to them?

 

[the button]

Israeli Foreign Minister's take: -

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman says the boarding of the ships in international waters was legal under international law. He described the Gaza flotilla as an attempt to undermine Israel's sovereignty.

Speaking to Channel 10 news on Monday night the FM said: "Israel is a sovereign state and cannot accept the undermining of its sovereignty. Israel has stopped ships in international waters before and when ships refuse to accede to warnings and obey instructions, we have the right to board them under international law."

He went on to say that the passengers on board the ship "were not peace activists but terror supporters."

Lieberman praised the soldiers who he said "showed great restraint and bravery while under attack by hooligans, anarchists and terror supporters". He also expressed appreciation of pressures under which foreign ministry employees and IDF spokesperson who, he said, had been working relentlessly throughout the day.

Lieberman said that Israel had warned the Turkish government through "both formal and informal contacts. All our efforts were rejected. The aim of this ship was violence, they prepared an ambush and were equipped with arms, an officer was stabbed." He noted that Israel allows countries to send aid to Gaza through its territory, after checking that it has no military purpose and that many countries do so.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177047

 

[agricola]

Some more background to Craig Murray's earlier blogpost about the UN Law of the Sea and its relevance to this incident:

Article 11.3. No arrest or detention of the ship, even as a measure of investigation, shall be ordered by any authorities other than those of the flag State.

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/8_1_1958_high_seas.pdf

edit: now that was well timed

 

[1%er]

You can watch a live feed of the UN debate about this here live now

 

[IC3D]

What astonishes me is how Israel feels it can starve the population of Gaza in the first place, I guess by killing 4000 people by bombing them they feel they can.

 

[claphamboy]

Fuck off Lynch. Anyone who supports murdering scum is completely beyond the pale.

Unusual for you to refer to the Israelis like that, glad you have finally come round.

 

[the button]

edit: now that was well timed

Indeed.

His understanding of international law seems to be "we've done it before and got away with it, so it must be OK."

 

[dylans]

10 seconds

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177038

Yes, they are small but they exist.

eta:

More resistance, more blood:

http://palsolidarity.org/2010/05/12604/

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896946,00.html

Arab Israeli's, Palestinians and Americans. All opposed by pro IDF demonstrators. .

 

[1%er]

So far every country I have seen speaking at the UN has condemned this action, most have said "it is a clear violation of International Law" and that they want an independent investigation. The only country that has not said the above, so far, is the USA who said "there are agreed way for countries to get humanitarian aid in to Gazza and went on to condemn the actions of Hamas"

 

[agricola]

So far every country I have seen speaking at the UN has condemned this action, most have said "it is a clear violation of International Law" and that they want an independent investigation. The only country that has not said the above, so far, is the USA who said "there are agreed way for countries to get humanitarian aid in to Gazza and went on to condemn the actions of Hamas"

The really interesting meeting will be the NATO one - after all, this was an attack on a NATO-flagged ship, by a non-NATO country in international waters. I am not saying they will declare war over this, but it is a huge problem for the US (given that NATO nations have given far more practical support, and immeasurably less foriegn policy grief, to the US than Israel ever has).

 

[1%er]

The really interesting meeting will be the NATO one - after all, this was an attack on a NATO-flagged ship, by a non-NATO country in international waters. I am not saying they will declare war over this, but it is a huge problem for the US (given that NATO nations have given far more practical support, and immeasurably less foriegn policy grief, to the US than Israel ever has).

I think you are correct the NATO meeting will be very interesting, the problem is NATO have few options available to them, the UN can do a great deal, the problem is I don't think it will

 

[Corax]

I am not saying they will declare war over this

I'd hope not, that would be fucking ridiculous.

Obama pays lip service, which is nice, but the truth remains that Israel can do what the fuck they like with no fear of retaliation.

Fuck Israel. Far-right state with a matryr complex.

 

[shamilton]

mods have shown crazy inconsistency in this thread, what a great introduction to the forum!

hi all

 

[spring-peeper]

mods have shown crazy inconsistency in this thread, what a great introduction to the forum!

hi all

Like what?

erm - welcome to u75 - place of inconsistency

 

[Idris2002]

shamilton apparently registered on the 29th of May, i.e. last saturday.

Given the Israeli tactic of deploying trolls and smoke-throwers on to the interweb, it will be interesting to see how shamilton's post develop.

 

[TAE]

All I have to say about this is:

Israeli military boarded a ship in international waters using soldiers carrying guns.

That's where it all went wrong. What happened afterwards was merely a consequence of that first action.

 

[spring-peeper]

Only one post in tech and one here -> I look forward to his views on this topic as well.

 

[1%er]

mods have shown crazy inconsistency in this thread, what a great introduction to the forum!

hi all

What do you mean? Got any examples?

I'm new here and I have to say I think the mods on this board have a very light touch, you are not confusing the comments of a poster who is also a mod with moderating decisions are you