Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[danny la rouge]

Amnesty International’s Malcolm Smart has said: “The activists on the ships made it clear that their primary purpose was to protest against the continuing Israeli blockade, which constitutes a form of collective punishment and so a breach of international law.”

 

[little_legs]

20 deaths

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/repor...on-gaza-flotilla-by-israeli-commandos_1390062

i am aware, thank you

 

[big eejit]

Very sensible interview with Alexi Sayle at the Whitehall protest on BBC News Channel just now.

 

[Pickman's model]

i am aware, thank you

obviously

 

[agricola]

Here's what the Israelis say is their commandos getting attacked by activists.

So no gunfire then, just a stun grenade thrown over the side, a petrol bomb and some guy with a long mop.

 

[Pickman's model]

swab the poop deck

 

[magneze]

Demand action against Israel's killing and attack on Flotilla to Gaza

20 unarmed civilians on board the international humanitarian aid flotilla to Gaza have been killed by Israeli naval forces.

Israeli commandos descending from helicopters stormed the six-boat flotilla in the early hours of Monday morning, while it was in international waters, about 90 miles (150km) from Gaza, where Israel has no jurisdiction.

http://www.psc.iparl.com/lobby/49

 

[dylans]

Yup. But I think very few are blaming all Israelis for this. One poster on this thread appeared to, but was quickly picked up on it.

The violent takeover of the convoy set off worldwide condemnation as Muslim leaders slammed the deadly raid as "criminal and inhuman".

Hours after the violent seizures, thousands of people poured onto the streets of Istanbul, Ankara, Amman and other Muslims capitals, chanting anti-Israel slogans.

Where are the demonstrations in Tel Aviv? Where are the Israeli's pouring onto the streets to condemn their government?

Where are the demands that their ELECTED government take peace talks seriously?

Where are the demands that their ELECTED government end the blockade that is starving an entire people.

Where are the demands that their ELECTED government stop building settlements?

I don't see any. I see Arab members of Parliament shouted down and I see Palestinian kids being tear gassed.

But we can't hold them responsible for the actions of the government they ELECTED ?

 

[Pickman's model]

But we can't hold them responsible for the actions of the government they ELECTED ?

did you take that attitude towards the uk government on 8 july 2005?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

So no gunfire then, just a stun grenade thrown over the side, a petrol bomb and some guy with a long mop.

Essentially it's the same as what happens in Gaza. A few Palestinians throw stones at soldiers and in return the soldiers open fire.

Interesting how the police in this country can take similar sort of attacks and not fire a shot and yet the IDF feel it necessary to open fire, anyone would think they had other reasons for firing upon civilians.....

 

[danny la rouge]

DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER

"The armada of hate and violence in support of [the] Hamas terror organisation was a premeditated and outrageous provocation".

Maybe they had children's toys, jam, or coriander. That'd certainly be provocation.

 

[Pickman's model]

you can do some vicious things with coriander...

 

[danny la rouge]

Where are the demonstrations in Tel Aviv?

There are. (See posts earlier in the thread).

Do you hold me responsible for the War in Iraq? etc.

 

[danny la rouge]

you can do some vicious things with coriander...

Certainly the leaves. I think this is the powdered seeds, though.

 

[Pickman's model]

Certainly the leaves. I think this is the powdered seeds, though.

even worse

 

[agricola]

Essentially it's the same as what happens in Gaza. A few Palestinians throw stones at soldiers and in return the soldiers open fire.

Interesting how the police in this country can take similar sort of attacks and not fire a shot and yet the IDF feel it necessary to open fire, anyone would think they had other reasons for firing upon civilians.....

Indeed. I dont hold my hopes out for any kind of justice here given how history has proceeded up to this point, but the fact that they have done this in international waters, against a lot of non-Palestinian civilians, must surely open the door to legal action being taken against the state.

 

[1%er]

Well quite. A very good argument against the collective punishment of the citizens of Gaza for the actions of Hamas, by the very Israeli-Egyptian blockade these ships were challenging.

Yes indeed.

 

[dylans]

There are. (See posts earlier in the thread).

Do you hold me responsible for the War in Iraq? etc.

The British public didn't support that war. They didn't elect a right wing government on a clear mandate to tear up any peace process and to build settlements. Netanyahuh made his position very clear as did Sharon, it was for settlements and ethnic cleansing and tragically he was supported for it.

If I were an Israeli I would want the world to know the actions of my government don't have my support. I hope the reports of demonstrations in Tel Aviv are true. Israelis have done it before. They demonstrated against the invasion of Lebanon in their thousands

And then elected the butcher of Sabra and Shatila as PM

 

[danny la rouge]

The British public didn't support that war.

They elected the Blair government, then returned that government in 2005.

 

[dylans]

did you take that attitude towards the uk government on 8 july 2005?

I don't hold anyone responsible for that crime but the fucking nutcases who carried it out

 

[dylans]

They elected the Blair government, then returned that government in 2005.

And a million demonstrated against the war. Show me that in Tel Aviv and I will take it all back

 

[danny la rouge]

I don't hold anyone responsible for that crime but the fucking nutcases who carried it out

I'd stick with that rule on the whole, then.

 

[dylans]

I'd stick with that rule on the whole, then.

We can't ignore the fact that on the whole the actions of the Israeli government have popular support. I wish it were otherwise but its a fact

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't hold anyone responsible for that crime but the fucking nutcases who carried it out

but everyone who voted labour or tory supported a party which supported the war. it seems to be one postion for foreign governments and another for our own. this is perverse of you.

 

[danny la rouge]

We can't ignore the fact that on the whole the actions of the Israeli government have popular support. I wish it were otherwise but its a fact

There is a leap from that to universal Israeli support. And yet another to universal Israeli responsibility.

It's best we don't blame the people for the actions of the State, or we get ourselves in all sorts of tangles.

 

[Maidmarian]

We can't ignore the fact that on the whole the actions of the Israeli government have popular support. I wish it were otherwise but its a fact

Same as here then ?

You seem to be making a non-point really.

Actually, I'm not sure what your point is.

Should we invade Israel ?

 

[dylans]

but everyone who voted labour or tory supported a party which supported the war. it seems to be one postion for foreign governments and another for our own. this is perverse of you.

To that extent yes we have some responsibility for that done in our name yes. I certainly feel that. I was ashamed of what was done by our government in the name of this country and in my name. I was ashamed and I said so. Sadly Israeli's are proud of theirs. You won't see too many demonstrations in Tel Aviv and I bet those that do will be heckled and jeered.

 

[Pickman's model]

We can't ignore the fact that on the whole the actions of the Israeli government have popular support. I wish it were otherwise but its a fact

yes. and the labour party was reelected in 2005 when people were getting killed at an appalling rate in iraq. but i suppose that doesn't mean their iraq policy had any measure of popular support.

 

[rioted]

It's best we don't blame the people for the actions of the State, or we get ourselves in all sorts of tangles.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people.

 

[danny la rouge]

To that extent yes we have some responsibility for that done in our name yes. I certainly feel that. I was ashamed of what was done by our government in the name of this country and in my name. I was ashamed and I said so. Sadly Israeli's are proud of theirs. You won't see too many demonstrations in Tel Aviv and I bet those that do will be heckled and jeered.

Demonstrations here are heckled and jeered.

I think you need to re-examine your logic on this one.