Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

[DexterTCN]

Also got a friend on one of the boats- no news yet, but Twitter reports some of the people from the boats are being taken to israeli prisons

 

[Open Sauce]

Haven't read the whole thread (it blossomed quickly) but obviously for UK urbanites http://www.writetothem.com/

I'm assuming that it is legal to try and defend yourself from armed scum dropping onto your ship.

My MP

http://www.finchleyconservatives.com/news/68-apcaas.html

http://www.finchleyconservatives.co...-horror-at-lib-dems-anti-israel-leaflets.html

Seems like Sas, anti Israel == anti Semite

eta...

What always suprises me is that the most vocal defenders of Israeli state actions are totally unconnected to it by blood or birth etc. Not singling Sass out (he might have connections for all I know) but the repeated r/w vocalists who really have no business defending or endorsing state actions then do.

What have they to gain, where is the vested interest. Very strange.

Indeed, why indeed would the PPC for Finchley and Golders Green join the "Friends of Israel", self serving careerist politics? Surely not.

 

[Iguana]

Also got a friend on one of the boats- no news yet, but Twitter reports some of the people from the boats are being taken to israeli prisons

Some to hospitals, some to prisons. I'm very worried about some people I know aboard, they're Irish and Israeli television has reported that there is an Irish citizen among the injured. And while I'm hoping my friend is ok I feel selfish for that as if he is ok, then that just means that someone else isn't.

 

[BettyBlue]

http://www.livestream.com/insaniyardim

 

[1%er]

Let not be to hypocritical about this, while it is true Israel is a terrorist state, so are many Nations. Let us not forget that because a state acts like terrorists that doesn't mean all the citizens of that state are guilty because of the actions of their Government.

 

[janeb]

Some to hospitals, some to prisons. I'm very worried about some people I know aboard, they're Irish and Israeli television has reported that there is an Irish citizen among the injured. And while I'm hoping my friend is ok I feel selfish for that as if he is ok, then that just means that someone else isn't.

I know exactly what you mean

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Let not be to hypocritical about this, while it is true Israel is a terrorist state, so are many Nations. Let us not forget that because a state acts like terrorists that doesn't mean all the citizens of that state are guilty because of the actions of their Government.

Well quite. A very good argument against the collective punishment of the citizens of Gaza for the actions of Hamas, by the very Israeli-Egyptian blockade these ships were challenging.

 

[discokermit]

What has given you that impression?

the video here,

http://www.vivapalestina.org/


i've just watched again and it's hard to judge chronology. i made a mistake though, it reports the first death after the boarding, i think. it does appear that there was gunfire before though.

 

[treelover]

one thing that is somewhat similar to apartheid era South Africa is the way the official Isreali Govt spokepersons talk, its like a different language, more like N.Korea

 

[DexterTCN]

Apparently the IDF guys were on their way to a birthday party, in their dresses, and they were kidnapped and....

 

[janeb]

Sky are now reporting it was the boat Mavi Marmama that was attacked. Last I heard that was the boat my friend was on.

 

[Iguana]

the video here,

http://www.vivapalestina.org/


i've just watched again and it's hard to judge chronology. i made a mistake though, it reports the first death after the boarding, i think. it does appear that there was gunfire before though.

I don't think we'll really know until those aboard the ships are released and can start talking. Who knows how long that will be.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

We should also remember that this is the latest is a long line of barbarism and massacres, and something the people of Gaza have to suffer every day. It is a historical tragedy, and with bitter irony, that Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto of the 21st century.

Hopefully the boycott of Israel will take off more after this.

 

[dylans]

In 2009 Nick Clegg wrote this for the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/22/lift-the-gaza-blocade-nick-clegg

And what has the British government and the international community done to lift the blockade? Next to nothing. Tough-sounding declarations are issued at regular intervals but little real pressure is applied. It is a scandal that the international community has sat on its hands in the face of this unfolding crisis.

Well Nick? Your silence is deafening.

 

[Nylock]

Don't hold your breath.

Sadly, QFT.

No sanction of any consequence will come of this. The Israelis will get a slap on the wrists at the worst from the rest of the world. The US will issue yet another 'must try harder' statement re Israeli behaviour. China will continue to sit on the fence. Turkey, Russia and the EU will make a load of noise and little else. Israel's immediate neighbours will make a load of noise and nothing else.

Nothing will happen, SNAFU.

All Israel is trying to do is protect their people against the continuous acts of war perpetrated from Gaza.

Bollocks.

If this happened in their territorial waters, then your argument may carry a millipascal more pressure than it does right now. But, as it stands, the act was done in international waters and therefore this tosh about defending the state is as nebulous as your assertion that criticism of the Israeli authorities = anti-semitism of the 1939-45 vintage...

 

[dylans]

Let not be to hypocritical about this, while it is true Israel is a terrorist state, so are many Nations. Let us not forget that because a state acts like terrorists that doesn't mean all the citizens of that state are guilty because of the actions of their Government.

I'm sorry Wasn't Netanyahuh elected? As was Ariel Sharon Before him.? If the citizens of Israel don't wish to be condemned alongside their fascist government, then let them demonstrate and demand an end to the siege of Gaza and an end to settlements.

 

[Pickman's model]

it does appear that there was gunfire before though.

does it fucking matter?

you're in a ship in the middle of the fucking sea and some fuckers invade the ship. any gunfire against the zionist entity fully justified in my opinion.

 

[dylans]

does it fucking matter?

you're in a ship in the middle of the fucking sea and some fuckers invade the ship. any gunfire against the zionist entity fully justified in my opinion.

Yup. I'm only sorry they didn't take out a few IDF soldiers in the fight

 

[Diamond]

Just heard of this.

WTF?

I mean, really, WTF?

At the very least economic sanctions must be the result.

 

[dylans]

Are the Palestinians allowed to fight back now without being called terrorists?

 

[Pickman's model]

Let not be to hypocritical about this, while it is true Israel is a terrorist state, so are many Nations.

nations aren't terrorist, states are.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just heard of this.

WTF?

I mean, really, WTF?

At the very least economic sanctions must be the result.

20 dead.

 

[Open Sauce]

Well, if the boarding was illegal (and I can't tell for sure if it was) then the activists were presumably within their rights to try to repel the armed boarders, even if it was only ever going to end one way ...

I'm sure the Israelis will claim it was entirely legal, but to paraphrase the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies, 'Well they would say that wouldn't they?'

I can't find a clear statement of what international law applies in this case though. For it to be piracy they would have to be non-state actors as far as I can make out.

I've found this regarding the legality

Article110

Right of visit

1. Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters on the high seas a foreign ship, other than a ship entitled to complete immunity in accordance with articles 95 and 96, is not justified in boarding it unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting that:

(a) the ship is engaged in piracy;

(b) the ship is engaged in the slave trade;

(c) the ship is engaged in unauthorized broadcasting and the flag State of the warship has jurisdiction under article 109;

(d) the ship is without nationality; or

(e) though flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag, the ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship.

...


4. These provisions apply mutatis mutandis to military aircraft.

 

[danny la rouge]

Let not be to hypocritical about this, while it is true Israel is a terrorist state, so are many Nations. Let us not forget that because a state acts like terrorists that doesn't mean all the citizens of that state are guilty because of the actions of their Government.

Yup. But I think very few are blaming all Israelis for this. One poster on this thread appeared to, but was quickly picked up on it.

 

[discokermit]

does it fucking matter?

you're in a ship in the middle of the fucking sea and some fuckers invade the ship. any gunfire against the zionist entity fully justified in my opinion.

no. but i don't think for a second that the gunfire came from the ship. i think the israelis had already fired on them before they boarded.

i also don't believe there were any guns on the ship and am surprised that you do.

 

[Pickman's model]

no. but i don't think for a second that the gunfire came from the ship. i think the israelis had already fired on them before they boarded.

i also don't believe there were any guns on the ship and am surprised that you do.

i don't give a fuck whether there was any gunfire from the ship. it's a distraction, it misses the substantive point. if there was some, it was fully justified.

 

[little_legs]

/
all morning the US networks were ass kissing mark regev. a few minutes ago ny times put the death toll at 10, it's embarassing
.

 

[Pickman's model]

/
all morning the US networks were ass kissing mark regev. a few minutes ago ny times put the death toll at 10, it's embarassing
.

20 deaths

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/repor...on-gaza-flotilla-by-israeli-commandos_1390062

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

i don't give a fuck whether there was any gunfire from the ship. it's a distraction, it misses the substantive point. if there was some, it was fully justified.

Essentially you are right, but I think it will play out even more badly in PR terms if Israel went on the boat firing at people.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Here's what the Israelis say is their commandos getting attacked by activists.