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Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

spring-peeper said:
Your ynetnews link doesn't seem to work :(
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Yes, that's why I used the google link, they initially suggested that Hamas had killed the 3 soldiers, then retracted it ~20 minutes later and deleted the first article.

See:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3651163,00.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3651164,00.html
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3651165,00.html

But applying Zachor's logic, I assumed (a) it must be Hamas' fault and (b) Israel makes no mistakes.
 
TAE said:
I agree, but if they stopped the rocket attacks, Israel would claim victory and use that to justify the whole operation.

On the other hand it would force Israel to stop the operation as they are using those rockets as an excuse.
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yes it is a mistake .. unless you believe as i dio that they don't care .. equally both sides will claim victory regardless .. it is all shite ..
 
Spion said:
"Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead – almost all civilians, most of them children and women – in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in the Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees, more than half of them children, at a UN base; the massacre of the Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by the Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter crew; the 1,000 dead of that same 2006 bombardment and Lebanese invasion, almost all of them civilians?"

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html
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you missed pre war riots across palestine in which all faiths died and the black september massacre in jordan in which between 10 and 25000 died .. and the damour and nabaa and aishiyeh massacres

spion the numbers games are too easy .. and many jews/ zionists will simply default to the shoah and explusions from africa ..

it is better finding solutions
 
Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents" since the beginning of the offensive.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7819492.stm


More bad news.....I found this particularly distressing...:(:(

EMERGENCY workers say they have rescued 100 more people and found 40 to 50 dead in a devastated residential block south of Gaza City that the Israeli military had kept off-limits to the Red Cross for four days.

Relief agencies said they feared more people remained in the rubble of several shattered houses in the Zeitoun neighbourhood. Red Cross officials said they had started receiving distress calls from people in the houses late on Saturday, but they were blocked by the Israeli military from reaching the area until Wednesday.

"There are still people under demolished houses," said Red Cross ambulance driver Khaled Abuzaid. "But without water or electricity, we're sure they'll die."

He said rescue workers had found 16 bodies in a house in Zeitoun, including six children, all from the Samouni family.

Most had sustained trauma injuries from shelling, but many had gunshot wounds as well, he said. Four children, weak but alive, were found lying under blankets, nestled next to their dead mothers. Red Cross officials had said earlier that 12 adult bodies had been found in the house but otherwise corroborated Mr Abuzaid's account.

He was part of a crew of 10 paramedics and other rescue workers who reached Zeitoun on Wednesday afternoon, during the three-hour lull in combat operations in Gaza.
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http://www.theage.com.au/world/red-...ll-in-offlimits-gaza-homes-20090109-7dnn.html
 
durruti02 said:
you missed pre war riots across palestine in which all faiths died and the black september massacre in jordan in which between 10 and 25000 died .. and the damour and nabaa and aishiyeh massacres

spion the numbers games are too easy .. and many jews/ zionists will simply default to the shoah and explusions from africa ..

it is better finding solutions
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please engage brain and read the context before firing off. I wasn't playing a numbers game I was responding to Zachor who said the IDF doesn't kill children.
 
Beyond belief - IDF war crime

. . . it's difficult to single out one event in this whole terrible story, but this is so grim. There has to be war crimes trials for this:

Gaza medics describe horror of strike which killed 70

Growing evidence emerged today of the bloodiest single incident of the Gaza conflict when around 70 corpses were found by a Palestinian paramedic near a bombed-out house.

Mohammed Shaheen, a volunteer with Palestinian Red Crescent, was in the first convoy of ambulances to reach the site of the blast in Zeitoun since it was first occupied then shelled by the Israeli army.

His testimony confirmed accounts, first reported in The Telegraph, from survivors of the extended al Samouni clan who said they feared between 60 and 70 family members had been killed. . .

They said that after the Israeli army first took the town on Saturday night soldiers had ordered about 100 members of the clan to gather in a single house owned by Wael Samouni around dawn on Sunday.

At 6.35am on Monday the house was repeatedly shelled with appalling loss of civilian life.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...escribe-horror-of-strike-which-killed-70.html
 
Spion said:
confirmed accounts, first reported in The Telegraph, from
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Interesting it's in the Telegraph. They pride themselves on their old-school "respect for the armed forces" reporting (hence their "one WW2 raid a day" obit. page) so if they are covering stories like this I'd guess it's going to go straight into the minds of the "hrumph hrumph" little englanders, as well as perhaps marking a shift in the reporting of the area?
 
Spion said:
. . . it's difficult to single out one event in this whole terrible story, but this is so grim. There has to be war crimes trials for this:

Gaza medics describe horror of strike which killed 70

Growing evidence emerged today of the bloodiest single incident of the Gaza conflict when around 70 corpses were found by a Palestinian paramedic near a bombed-out house.

Mohammed Shaheen, a volunteer with Palestinian Red Crescent, was in the first convoy of ambulances to reach the site of the blast in Zeitoun since it was first occupied then shelled by the Israeli army.

His testimony confirmed accounts, first reported in The Telegraph, from survivors of the extended al Samouni clan who said they feared between 60 and 70 family members had been killed. . .

They said that after the Israeli army first took the town on Saturday night soldiers had ordered about 100 members of the clan to gather in a single house owned by Wael Samouni around dawn on Sunday.

At 6.35am on Monday the house was repeatedly shelled with appalling loss of civilian life.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...escribe-horror-of-strike-which-killed-70.html
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*cough* Post 1774....*cough*


Come on Spion....do keep up ;)
 
the plan is sadly to do neither it's to kill as many as possible to erradicate their existance and replace it with their revisionist history for 60 years or so like the cowboys and injuns til enough of the culture has been subliminated and erased so that it's not longer possible to be a palestinian by the time those children get to be teenagers this might have already happened...
 
This BBC guy thinks it's going to go on for a while since it's in both side's interest....
Israel:
it has set objectives that need to be met if Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and Defence Minister Ehud Barak are going to have any kind of political career when this is over.

They have set two main objectives, neither of which has been achieved yet.
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Hamas:
Like Israel, it has dismissed the ceasefire resolution.

They have an ideology of struggle, resistance and sacrifice. They could have extended the ceasefire with Israel but chose not to do so.

Hamas believed they would have to fight Israel at some time (the feeling was mutual) and it seems that they have decided that the moment has come.

Civilian deaths in Gaza are most likely seen not as reasons to stop but as a reason to go on.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7820680.stm
 
rich! said:
Interesting it's in the Telegraph. They pride themselves on their old-school "respect for the armed forces" reporting (hence their "one WW2 raid a day" obit. page) so if they are covering stories like this I'd guess it's going to go straight into the minds of the "hrumph hrumph" little englanders, as well as perhaps marking a shift in the reporting of the area?
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Dont forget the Private Eye sometime-nickname for it: The Telavivograph.
 
TomUS said:
This BBC guy thinks it's going to go on for a while since it's in both side's interest....
Israel:

Hamas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7820680.stm
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except as we know the offical version of events entirely erases hamas's attempts to borker a new ceasefire before the expireation of the old one which isreal would stick to when isreal rejected this the current sitautation arose only a rabid circle jerk fantasist would suggest that the bbc appauling lies about the preceeding poltical situation was in anyway an accurate reflection of what happened...
 
rich! said:
Interesting it's in the Telegraph. They pride themselves on their old-school "respect for the armed forces" reporting (hence their "one WW2 raid a day" obit. page) so if they are covering stories like this I'd guess it's going to go straight into the minds of the "hrumph hrumph" little englanders, as well as perhaps marking a shift in the reporting of the area?
Click to expand...

The Telegraph is certainly better-conected with the armed forces than any other paper :)

Since the comments from the Janes Military Porn geezer on the photos of the phosphorous munitions, I've had the intuition that (some of) the British officer class is going off the state of Israel in a big way. This is confirmatory evidence ;)

Giving soldiering a bad name and all - more important to them than state, don'tchaknow?


What with the undoubted war crimes, the state's fucked itself in a big way. In the long run, it's over, and yesterday's Red Cross statement practically declaring it guilty of war crimes may, I think, be seen as a turning point.
 
Bears repeating:
The International Committee of the Red Cross accused Israel of "unacceptable" delays in letting rescue workers reach three homes in Gaza City that had been hit by shelling.

The group said the Israeli army refused rescuers permission to reach the site in the Zaytun neighbourhood for four days. Once Red Cross teams reached the area yesterday, they found four small children next to their dead mothers at one home. They were too weak to stand up on their own. One man was also found alive, too weak to stand up. In all, there were at least 12 corpses lying on mattresses.

In another house, a rescue team found 15 survivors, including several wounded. In yet another home, rescuers found three bodies. Israeli soldiers posted at a military position nearby ordered the rescue team to leave the area, which it refused to do.

"This is a shocking incident," said Pierre Wettach, the Red Cross's head for the region. "The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded. Neither did they make it possible for us or the Palestine Red Crescent to assist the wounded."

The ICRC said the children and wounded had to be taken to the ambulances on a donkey cart because Israeli forces had erected large earth walls, making it impossible to bring ambulances into the neighbourhood. The Red Cross said it brought out 18 wounded and 12 others who were extremely exhausted, as well as two bodies.
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source

Clear evidence of war crimes ...
 
laptop said:
What with the undoubted war crimes, the state's fucked itself in a big way. In the long run, it's over, and yesterday's Red Cross statement practically declaring it guilty of war crimes may, I think, be seen as a turning point.
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god don't you just wish that were true but we still have shatila and sabra left un delt with what makes this any different?
 
laptop said:
What with the undoubted war crimes, the state's fucked itself in a big way. In the long run, it's over, and yesterday's Red Cross statement practically declaring it guilty of war crimes may, I think, be seen as a turning point.
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Reminds me somewhat of a Tim Sebastian HardTalk interview with one of the Apartheid SA government's murderers, who was asked "when did you know it was over" and replied "as soon as the Berlin Wall started coming down". He turned up to Truth & Reconciliation Committee sessions, and sang like a canary, and then spent the next 5 years dodging his former victims and his former colleagues alike... This was a man who had happily letter-bombed anti-apartheid campaigners families, amongst other atrocities...
 
laptop said:
The Telegraph is certainly better-conected with the armed forces than any other paper :)

Since the comments from the Janes Military Porn geezer on the photos of the phosphorous munitions, I've had the intuition that (some of) the British officer class is going off the state of Israel in a big way. This is confirmatory evidence ;)

Giving soldiering a bad name and all - more important to them than state, don'tchaknow?


What with the undoubted war crimes, the state's fucked itself in a big way. In the long run, it's over, and yesterday's Red Cross statement practically declaring it guilty of war crimes may, I think, be seen as a turning point.
Click to expand...

I think its more that they (the IDF) have proved that they are willing to do very bad things for what is really at most minor provocation (and in reality is probably down to their own provoking of Hamas), and that there is no alternative currently visible in Israeli politics.

I would also like to think that the army, and the FO, now realise what a complete fucking disaster it has been since the 2006 elections, how much of a recruiting video this all is for fundamentalists everywhere and are desperately hoping to start things anew while there is still a chance for some kind of sane outcome to this. Without Bush, and with Blair hopefully sacked for incompetence as the Quartet Peace Envoy, it should be easier.

edit: the Telegraph do have a history of the occasional article critical of israel though, admittedly in the case below its incredibly hard not to be incredibly critical:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/152...-hold-fire-10-times-before-post-was-hit'.html
 
Zachor said:
Yawn yet more twisted 'history'. As I've stated before the Palestinians do deserve to be compensated in some way for the convulsions at the time of the recreation of the state of Israel but that compensatoni must not be the land of Israel it should be something else. Maybe the money that is spent in war could be better spent in compensating the Jordgyptians / Palestinians whatever you want to call them (a distinctly 'palestinian arab' identity only really fllourished after 1967) for not only the problems caused at the recreation of the state but for the depredations of their own leaders and the other govts who have used their plight as a way of bashing Israel.
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So what you're proposing is that the state of Israel attempt to absolve it's crimes against the Palestinian people through paying blutgelt, thus washing their hands of the problem?
Could you actually get any more despicable?

By the way, arschloch, you can't "re-create" something that never previously existed. There was never a state of Israel previous to 1948, there was a kingdom, you ignorant cretin.
 
laptop said:
There's one big difference.
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Superpower overextends itself economically and collapses. Proxy states around the world bolstered by it, or whose atrocities are justified by the need to defend against it, go down.

This could be a mirror-image of the Berlin Wall. As the US economy falls apart, and it returns to one of its periodic isolationist phases, support for external atrocity factories withers...
 
ViolentPanda said:
So what you're proposing is that the state of Israel attempt to absolve it's crimes against the Palestinian people through paying blutgelt, thus washing their hands of the problem?
Could you actually get any more despicable?

By the way, arschloch, you can't "re-create" something that never previously existed. There was never a state of Israel previous to 1948, there was a kingdom, you ignorant cretin.
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VP is speaking Yiddish - must be really pissed off.
 
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