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Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

taffboy gwyrdd said:
There is a reasoned argument that targetting rocket launch capabilities is justified. That's about it. Its not even too apologist to allow for a small degree of civilian casualities.
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Possibly, if the results were about hitting sites in remote locations where nobody lived. Given it's an densely populated place, the outcome is horrific, although not surprising.

These attacks are not about stopping the rockets though. It has turned into a racist genocide under cover of a lie.
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Agreed, but the line bought into by most people backing the Israel was that the attacks were to stop rockets.
 
Spion said:
"The army is well aware gunmen usually leave the area after having fired and any reprisal attack against these homes will in most cases cause harm to civilians - not gunmen,"
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Didn't some journalists actually document this in Lebanon, that the Israeli army were simply bombing the building nearest to a given launch site?
 
TAE said:
Didn't some journalists actually document this in Lebanon, that the Israeli army were simply bombing the building nearest to a given launch site?
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Possibly. I seem to remember there were certainly similar issues around those UNIFIL guys who were killed by an IDF bombing raid (they dropped a bomb on the bunker they were hiding in) because Hezbollah was "launching nearby", then they shelled the base for 24 hours afterwards despite being told repeatedly and at high level to stop.

In other news, the Israelis reject the UNSC resolution (which is legally binding) demanding an immediate ceasefire:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...security_council_resolution_calls_for_is.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2009/jan/09/gaza-israel

The next step should be sanctions; the Israelis clearly think they are totally beyond international law and that the US will provide them with total immunity (surely the US abstention is a message to them that things have changed now).
 
The Guardian isn't pulling punches with this one........

The-body-of-a-child-is-re-001.jpg
 
agricola said:
the Israelis clearly think they are totally beyond international law and that the US will provide them with total immunity (surely the US abstention is a message to them that things have changed now).
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Things haven't changed. The US will always support Israel on anything that matters. The only time things will change is when the Arabs or Persians get a nuke. And then they'll change very fast indeed.
 
they'll have their country flattened before they're allowed to do that tho, which is why even Saddam never made a serious attempt at building one
 
They're serious, but it wont be allowed to happen. Either any project that gets anywhere will be 'strategically' bombed, or they'll get some kind of diplomatic/trade payoff to stop.
 
phildwyer said:
Things haven't changed. The US will always support Israel on anything that matters. The only time things will change is when the Arabs or Persians get a nuke. And then they'll change very fast indeed.
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I think there are limits to their patience, especially when they are dealing with a lame duck in Olmert and the effects of this action are both overwhelmingly negative and incredibly needless.

Now that he is defying a UN SC resolution (more knowledgeable people than I would be able to confirm this, but isnt this only the third one to ever demand Israel do something?) the pressure on them to act will be incredible, if for no other reason than to not do something would totally discredit the international system (or rather, give another example to extremists).
 
phildwyer said:
I wish it were true, but it isn't. I live in the USA, and criticism of Israel is pretty much taboo in the public sphere, and in large parts of the private sphere too.
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Land of the free, home of the brave!

The mainstream press is far more conservative over there on foreign policy. I was there wehn 9/11 happened and the only place you could read anything that wasn't parroting the State Dept was in the free papers
 
belboid said:
They're serious, but it wont be allowed to happen. Either any project that gets anywhere will be 'strategically' bombed, or they'll get some kind of diplomatic/trade payoff to stop.
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You're probably right, but its only a matter of time. Turkey already has nukes, if my generally reliable sources are to be believed, as does Pakistan. Obviously neither of them are about to bomb Israel--under their present governments. But their present governments are not exactly secure. And you can be sure that the Arabs are inching their way towards nuclear capability, bit by bit and under cover. But most likely of all is that some non-state actor will manage to build one. I'd give it 20 years.
 
phildwyer said:
You're probably right, but its only a matter of time. Turkey already has nukes, if my generally reliable sources are to be believed, as does Pakistan. Obviously neither of them are about to bomb Israel--under their present governments. But their present governments are not exactly secure. And you can be sure that the Arabs are inching their way towards nuclear capability, bit by bit and under cover. But most likely of all is that some non-state actor will manage to build one. I'd give it 20 years.
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And go forward 50 years people will probably have them in man-portable form. All the more reason to remove the causes of conflict before that
 
phildwyer said:
But most likely of all is that some non-state actor will manage to build one. I'd give it 20 years.
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Really? It's really quite hard to do, unless someone else gives you the parts, in which case it's not really homemade any more.
 
agricola said:
A mistake by Hamas - admittedly they werent consulted, but they could have made Israel look very bad indeed by accepting the resolution.

That said, they are not a member of the UN and Israel is.
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I agree, but if they stopped the rocket attacks, Israel would claim victory and use that to justify the whole operation.

On the other hand it would force Israel to stop the operation as they are using those rockets as an excuse.
 
I wonder how much the world would ever have heard of the blockade of Gaza and the Israeli incursions if no-one had ever fired a rocket from Gaza.

Sad to say, but conflict changes minds
 
TAE said:
The comments section of that story is truely depressing. :(
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Esp this one :rolleyes: "Tragic. Awful. Will the Palestinians never allow peace to prevail? Just lay down your weapons, concentrate on building a community and raising your children. Forget about Israel, shun the bombers and murderers in your midst, and peace might yet be yours. Keep voting for war, and you will get it.

Nick, Rotherham, UK"
Fuckin gobshite :mad:
 
Gingerman said:
Esp this one :rolleyes: "Tragic. Awful. Will the Palestinians never allow peace to prevail? Just lay down your weapons, concentrate on building a community and raising your children. Forget about Israel, shun the bombers and murderers in your midst, and peace might yet be yours. Keep voting for war, and you will get it.

Nick, Rotherham, UK"
Fuckin gobshite :mad:
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He's got a point you know. The Pals could have voted for some other group than a group of Jew hating nutters (thats if you believe that Hamas were voted in in Gaza rather than slaughtering their Fatah opponents).

When will people learn you can't make deals with fascists Chamberlain realised it too late lets hope the Olmert and others do.

Agree that it is time for a proper ceasefire in order for humanitarian aid to get through to the civilians.
 
Zachor said:
He's got a point you know. The Pals could have voted for some other group than a group of Jew hating nutters.
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No condemnation of Israel committing war crimes and deliberately killing children I see. All you can do is blame the victims. Despicable.
 
Blagsta said:
No condemnation of Israel committing war crimes and deliberately killing children I see. All you can do is blame the victims. Despicable.
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Israel is not deliberately killing children. Hamas on the other hand have been launching thousands of missiles over an extended period of time onto Israeli civilians and it was only luck and the fact that shelters are available that more Israelis haven't been killed.

As we are on the subject of the use of the word despicable what would you call the union between clerical fascists and people laughingly calling themselves socialists? I would call that despicable but you see very few people condemning it.
 
Zachor said:
He's got a point you know. The Pals could have voted for some other group than a group of Jew hating nutters.
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Today's Palestinians are the only people in the world to have a GENUINE grievance against 'Palestinian-hating Jews'.

Palestinians do really hate the type of Jew who wants to and supports the 60+ year practice of forcible removal of Palestinians from their land and homes.
 
Zachor said:
Israel is not deliberately killing children.
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"Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead – almost all civilians, most of them children and women – in Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in the Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees, more than half of them children, at a UN base; the massacre of the Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by the Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter crew; the 1,000 dead of that same 2006 bombardment and Lebanese invasion, almost all of them civilians?"

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...ate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html
 
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