Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

[Spion]

This has nothing to do with any "working class" but with politics.

I'm sorry, but that's utter twaddle. Politics in Gaza includes Hamas' tendency to suppress democratic and trade union organisation and that is a result of a nationalist ideology which says 'we all have the same interests' which by default is that of the existing socio-economic system

 

[Aldebaran]

So sasaferato, you are palestinian and you live in palestine. You want israel to stop killing your family and friends and you want to be a citizen in a nation that is your homeland, etc...etc...

What do you do. You as person, not what you thinks others should or could. You are a civilian, not a politician. For the sake of your ability to imagine things more realistic, let's assume you are a palestinian christian.

salaam.

 

[claphamboy]

No. That is not what I said.

What exactly were you trying to say?

From what I am reading - you like throwing around the term ‘terrorist’, without accepting the very basis principle that one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

The only way peace can be achieved is by talking with these terrorists/freedom fighters – bombing the fuck out of their women, children and innocent men is not going to solve the problem.

The trouble is that Israel has no interest in talking, because they don’t want to return the land they have illegally occupied.

 

[tangentlama]

Islamic Jihad also fire rockets

Reports about IJ here: Islamic Jihad kassam rocket builders.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,531578,00.html

Report about Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade here (Fatah) http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/oct/25/google.israel

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm sorry, but that's utter twaddle. Politics in Gaza includes Hamas' tendency to suppress democratic and trade union organisation and that is a result of a nationalist ideology which says 'we all have the same interests' which by default is that of the existing socio-economic system

Correct, like I said, it is politics and has nothing directly to do with "working class", but with enforcing ideology. If you have an ideology to push, you try to push them onto everyone alike.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

The trouble is that Israel has no interest in talking, because they don’t want to return the land they have illegally occupied.

The core problem is that in their view there is nothing illegal about it and the US keeps blocking every resolution that makes it illegal, too.

salaam.

 

[claphamboy]

The core problem is that in their view there is nothing illegal about it and the US keeps blocking every resolution that makes it illegal, too.

salaam.

Although, United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, adopted in November 1967, in the aftermath of the Six Day War did call for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from ALL territories occupied in that conflict - something Israel refuses to do.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, but remember, only countries the US and West combined pick and chose to claim they "violate UN resolutions" while they don't, are constantly threatened and even "pre-emptively" attacked and invaded.

salaam.

 

[Sasaferrato]

They only fired the rockets AFTER Israel broke the cease-fire.

Besides the range of these rockets are fairly shit and fall on land that does not actually belong to Israel, it is land stolen & occupied after the 1967 war, from my understanding it is illegally occupied under international law.

38 miles.

Those who claim the rockets are primitive are not telling the truth.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Although, United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, adopted in November 1967, in the aftermath of the Six Day War did call for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from ALL territories occupied in that conflict - something Israel refuses to do.

Rightly so.

You seem to be somewhat blind as to the history of aggression against Israel by its neighbours.

 

[belboid]

maybe they are, maybe they're not. Either way, they have killed, in the last eight years, less than half the number killed in a single Israeli attack today.

 

[DotCommunist]

38 miles.

Those who claim the rockets are primitive are not telling the truth.

I'm guessing these are russian made things?

The carnage must stop. Even the normally pro Israel beeb have been portraying this latest incursion in a bad light.

 

[belboid]

Rightly so.

You seem to be somewhat blind as to the history of aggression against Israel by its neighbours.

And you are totally blind to the aggression of Israel today.

 

[DotCommunist]

maybe they are, maybe they're not. Either way, they have killed, in the last eight years, less than half the number killed in a single Israeli attack today.

when your opponent has an air force and you do not, you are essentially fucked

 

[Aldebaran]

May I remind the audience that we have now to collectively imagine sasaferato as a palestinian christian, living in palestine today.

salaam.

 

[claphamboy]

Rightly so.

You seem to be somewhat blind as to the history of aggression against Israel by its neighbours.

No not blind, but as you say that's history.

 

[agricola]

38 miles.

Those who claim the rockets are primitive are not telling the truth.

They are slightly up-ranged (and 38 mile range is news to me, I'd like to see some evidence of that) home-made versions of WW2 technology, especially when compared to what the Israelis have they are primitive.

 

[Aldebaran]

Rightly so.

You seem to be somewhat blind as to the history of aggression against Israel by its neighbours.

I don't even want to start arguing this convenient twist you give to regional history

salaam.

 

[belboid]

(and 38 mile range is news to me, I'd like to see some evidence of that)

yeah, 25 miles is the normal given range, quite where Sas gets the extra 50% from, gawd knows

 

[agricola]

Rightly so.

You seem to be somewhat blind as to the history of aggression against Israel by its neighbours.

number of times Israel has been attacked by its neighbours: 2 (1948, 73)
number of times its neighbours have been attacked by Israel: 4 (Suez, 67, Lebanon 1982, Lebanon 2006)

 

[untethered]

number of times Israel has been attacked by its neighbours: 2 (1948, 73)
number of times its neighbours have been attacked by Israel: 4 (Suez, 67, Lebanon 1982, Lebanon 2006)

Israel was attacked by three of its neighbours in the 1973 war, which was fought on several fronts.

 

[agricola]

Israel was attacked by three of its neighbours in the 1973 war, which was fought on several fronts.

several fronts do not make several wars.

 

[Andy the Don]

yeah, 25 miles is the normal given range, quite where Sas gets the extra 50% from, gawd knows

Got his miles confused with his kilometres.

 

[untethered]

several fronts do not make several wars.

You seemed to be collecting statistics on attacks rather than wars.

Not that it makes a valid point either way, but let's get the details right.

 

[agricola]

You seemed to be collecting statistics on attacks rather than wars.

Not that it makes a valid point either way, but let's get the details right.

Ok then, off you go and present a comprehensive statistical analysis of every attack since 1948. Or you could just use "wars started by" as an easy guide.

 

[untethered]

Ok then, off you go and present a comprehensive statistical analysis of every attack since 1948. Or you could just use "wars started by" as an easy guide.

I believe it was your facile point that by counting wars you could demonstrate that Israel is more belligerent than its neighbours. That method appears, at best, uncompelling.

 

[agricola]

I believe it was your facile point that by counting wars you could demonstrate that Israel is more belligerent than its neighbours. That method appears, at best, uncompelling.

No, it was sass's contention that Israel has been more sinned against than sinner. They have started more wars than they have been started on. This is blatantly clear.

 

[Spion]

I'm guessing these are russian made things?

I've yet to see any evidence of this actually. The whole 'Grad' thing appears to be a myth

 

[Spion]

Israel was attacked by three of its neighbours in the 1973 war, which was fought on several fronts.

Yeah, Egypt and Syria had the temerity to try to take their own land back - namely the Sinai and the Golan.

There wasn't a 3rd Arab country - you are hopelessly ill informed

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I've yet to see any evidence of this actually. The whole 'Grad' thing appears to be a myth

If I understand right, the Palestinians have made garage copies of Grad type rockets, but I expect that it sounds better if that distinction is obfuscated.