Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

[durruti02]

His posts are unreadable for non-english first language speaker like me.

apologies .. i will try to be clearer .. but maybe then, you could also not dimiss my opinion / argument, so easily

p.s. you still have not told me how i lied or was so wrong concerning the west bank, after i said 20% of it was run by the PA

 

[durruti02]

It was not. Israel has never allowed free movement in and out, via air, land or sea.

Get that into your thick skull, please

it may seem like words but it matters .. yes israel never aloowed free movement .. but it did hand over control .. this is surely indisputable and i do not understand why you argue it

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/15/world/fg-gaza15

 

[Spion]

it may seem like words but it matters .. yes israel never aloowed free movement .. but it did hand over control

Are you familiar with the jewish ghettoes of WW2. Do you know they had their own administration and police? Would you say the Jews in those situations had control?

 

[tangentlama]

1) yes true .. it is a real issue in israel but as i say i see no trajectory for the annihilation of palestinians .. society has been split since the thirties and while the oppression continues as i say there is no trajectory that suggests a fundamental changeinto genocide

Any trajectory which uses transfer to remove Palestinians from their land is moving towards genocide. These pro-transfer steps are towards genocide.

Transfer is not a solution to end Israel's conflict with Palestinians, but it has been seriously suggested. Transfer is ethnic cleansing.

Slow destruction of Palestinian economy is ethnic cleansing. If people cannot make a living, they will become forced to leave.

If Palestinians do not leave quickly enough, or the slow trickle from the West Bank (and Gaza Strip, if they were allowed to leave, which they are not since they are under complete seige these last two years and still living under occupation), then there has always been the worry that mass killings will take place at the hand of the IDF/IAF and force more Palestinians to try to leave WB and Gaza (except no-one can leave Gaza who is Palestinian).

International law defines genocide as any acts which intend "to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."

One of the five types of acts is "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part." This describes the Israeli actions against Palestinian populace.

 

[Spion]

p.s. you still have not told me how i lied or was so wrong concerning the west bank, after i said 20% of it was run by the PA

You provided no source, so it's impossible to know what you mean by control.

You probably mean civil control. That is, the PA collects the bins etc.

98% of the WB is under Israeli military control, and that includes all borders

 

[nino_savatte]

1) ta
2) fair play that is often the case in politics .. i just see the same rituals year after year, the same moral outrage the same failure to actually change jack shit ..

"Fair play"?

 

[TAE]

Photos from both sides:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12/israel_and_gaza.html

 

[durruti02]

Are you familiar with the jewish ghettoes of WW2. Do you know they had their own administration and police? Would you say the Jews in those situations had control?

so why is israel 'invading' gaza?

btw yes i did and i think the ghettos have similarities with to gaza, though i was not aware that germans had no access (.. is this the case ..)

and the jewish police who ran them were collaborators not at all like hamas .. are you suggesting the west bank PA/ PLO are like the jewish police in warsaw?

 

[laptop]

p.s. you still have not told me how i lied or was so wrong concerning the west bank, after i said 20% of it was run by the PA

You said "the West Bank" was "handed over".

Now you concede that:

• only Area A (which you say is 20% - I think it's less) is nominally controlled by the PA;
• there is no freedom of movement for Palestinians between the fragments of Area A;
• there is no freedom of movement for Palestinians between anywhere in the West Bank and Israel;

And we have yet to deal with the question of Israeli incursions, arrests without warrant, detention without charge and random assasinations, throughout the West Bank.

 

[durruti02]

Any trajectory which uses transfer to remove Palestinians from their land is moving towards genocide. These pro-transfer steps are towards genocide.

Transfer is not a solution to end Israel's conflict with Palestinians, but it has been seriously suggested. Transfer is ethnic cleansing.

Slow destruction of Palestinian economy is ethnic cleansing. If people cannot make a living, they will become forced to leave.

If Palestinians do not leave quickly enough, or the slow trickle from the West Bank (and Gaza Strip, if they were allowed to leave, which they are not since they are under complete seige these last two years and still living under occupation), then there has always been the worry that mass killings will take place at the hand of the IDF/IAF and force more Palestinians to try to leave WB and Gaza (except no-one can leave Gaza who is Palestinian).

International law defines genocide as any acts which intend "to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."

One of the five types of acts is "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part." This describes the Israeli actions against Palestinian populace.

but this started in the twenties / thirties .. my point is the trajectory has not got any worse since then hence it is not pointing at genocide, indeed the actions over gaza ( until recently) and west bank ( though small ) illustrate differrently

 

[Spion]

so why is israel 'invading' gaza?

btw yes i did and i think the ghettos have similarities with to gaza, though i was not aware that germans had no access (.. is this the case ..)

and the jewish police who ran them were collaborators not at all like hamas .. are you suggesting the west bank PA/ PLO are like the jewish police in warsaw?

The Wehrmaxht had access when they wanted it.

The Israelis are invading precisely because they don't have a compliant collaborator regime in Gaza. That's what they're trying to achieve

 

[durruti02]

You said "the West Bank" was "handed over".

Now you concede that:

• only Area A (which you say is 20% - I think it's less) is nominally controlled by the PA;
• there is no freedom of movement for Palestinians between the fragments of Area A;
• there is no freedom of movement for Palestinians between anywhere in the West Bank and Israel;

And we have yet to deal with the question of Israeli incursions, arrests without warrant, detention without charge and random assasinations, throughout the West Bank.

random i never said the west bank was handed over .. i ALWAYS said only 20% was ...



.. actually i am wrong

i''ve just checked .. i DID write that .. though that was not what was in my head, which was the 20% being handed back, which i corrected a few posts later .. the point was about trajectory again i have always accepted it is mainly bullshit but does not express to me a country intent on extermination

 

[durruti02]

The Wehrmaxht had access when they wanted it.

The Israelis are invading precisely because they don't have a compliant collaborator regime in Gaza. That's what they're trying to achieve

yes to an extent, but are you are then saying PA/PLO are the same as the jewish police in warsaw who will hand over their people to the extermination camps?

eta got to go now things to do

 

[laptop]

are you are then saying PA/PLO are the same as the jewish police in warsaw who will hand over their people to the extermination camps?

They do fuck off to barracks half an hour before the Israel armed forces drive into town to seize or kill people...

 

[Aldebaran]

Fuck judaism. Backward, ignorant religion for spirtually bankrupt people (like all of them) which leads to shit like this.

Thank you for this intellectually founded contribution to this discussion.

With respect, Zionism and Judaism are inextricably linked. In much the same way Al-Qaeda and Islam are. They can both get fucked as far as I'm concerned. If you took the religious aspect out of those movements (Al-Q and Zionism) they wouldn't exist. It's PC bullshit to ignore that fact.

A post of the same intellectual order of the previous one.
I'm now hurting my brain to find out why I see so many things wrong with all of it. You expose it all so obvious and clear: religion is the fault of everything any human does wrong. Politics combined are not coming even near let alone be the dominant factors.
Thanks for the educative course. I must go back to school now. *Sigh*

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

spin doctor why?? .. iran supports hamas .. simple .. ( as the us supports israel ) financially and militaryly .. if iran had any sort of dirty bomb it would affect israel and palestine ..

ethiopian kids have been kille din rocket attacks in israel

There is a little fault in your discours: Iran has no bomb and if Iran wanted Hamas would be much more violent and much more armed than they are now.
In fact, if anything, Israel can be grateful that Iran doesn't want them to. Because Israel would not be so triumphant murdering hundreds right now (or ever) without having to fear much retribution and/or resistance.

Just saying...

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Why does Israel go to such lengths to obliterate any evidence of palestinian life on the areas it ethnically cleansed in 1948, to the laughable extent of turning palestinian villages into "biblical ruins" and constructing whackjob religious theme parks around them so that everyone can admire the "ancient past"? How does this help Israel defend itself, unless you mean defend itself from its own conscience, by hiding the evidence of its crimes?

In reality, they are destroying methodically the very fabric of tribal society in Palestine for as long as they are at it. Formerly, you could know where someone was born only by him mentioning his name. Not much left of that now.People are de-rooted from their roots and with that from their social and cultural ties. It is the silent, sneaky version of "divide and conquer" at work throughout the whole of Palestinian society and since decades.

This isn't about Hamas, is it?

This is not about Hamas but much more so about the USA and their "good friends" and their targeting of Iran in general. They tried to get Iran involved the last time in Lebanon and now they try the same.

shalom.

 

[durruti02]

Gaza protest continue everyday then big one on 10th jan

from stwc

• Daily protests 5 - 9 January, 5.30pm-7.00pm
Israeli Embassy, High St, Kensington, London

• National Demonstration: Saturday 10 January
March from Hyde Park to Israeli Embassy
Assemble 12:30 at Hyde Park
Stop Israel's crime against humanity

Join the national demonstration: Stop the War is asking all its local groups outside of London to book coaches or arrange other transport to help make this the biggest demonstration yet seen in this country in the cause of Palestinian freedom. Email details to office@stopwar.org.uk

=====================

500 dead. Thousands injured. United States blocks UN call for carnage to stop.

This ground attack is intended to turn Gaza into Israeli killing fields. Within hours of troops entering Gaza, hospitals reported that 23 people had been killed and that twenty of them were civilians.

Demonstrations across the world call for an immediate stop to the carnage. Every country in the world bar one wants the killing and destruction to stop now. But just as it did in the Lebanon War in 2006, The United States has given the green light to Israel to intensify its barbarism.

The US is blocking all UN diplomacy for an immediate ceasefire with the tacit compliance of the British government, which calls for an immediate ceasefire while at the same time endorsing America's refusal to allow any discussion in the United Nations to achieve this end.

When Israel broke the six month ceasefire on November 4, it was the trigger for this long planned invasion, deliberately timed for the last few weeks of George Bush's presidency and a few weeks before Israeli elections, in which all the leading politicians are competing as to how many Palestinians they can kill.

Stop the War, Palestine Solidarity Campaign, British Muslim Initiative, Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament are organising continual protests in the next week, culminating in a national demonstration marching to the Israeli Embassy in London on Saturday 10 January.

We urge all of our supporters to do all keep informed about our activities via out website and by subscribing to our regular newsletters. Everyone who is shocked and outraged by Israel's barbarity, and the prospect of hundreds more Palestinian civilians being killed by the fourth most powerful military in the world, should commit themselves to helping mobilise for the protests in the coming week and for making the national demonstration on Saturday 10 January the biggest yet seen in this country for the freedom of Palestine.

 

[tangentlama]

The post above does not belong in this thread on attacks in Gaza. It belongs to the demo announcement forum. Please remove and try to stick to the topic!

 

[durruti02]

The post above does not belong in this thread on attacks in Gaza. It belongs to the demo announcement forum. Please remove and try to stick to the topic!

don't be daft .. it is response to the attacks so is entirely relevent

 

[denniseagle]

Aye. I take it you define cretins as those posters

(a) who don't understand irony
(b) are keen to show off their encyclopediac knowledge of guns, weaponry etc (the sure sign of an arsehole if ever there was one)
(c) downplay war crimes

right?

nah just those who cannot see how stupid their posts are .

Looks like you match the criteria as well.............

 

[hipipol]

nah just those who cannot see how stupid their posts are .

Looks like you match the criteria as well.............

Hmm, Gloucester, a lovely place, knuckledraggers to a man
You must blend in well

 

[STFC]

Hmm, Gloucester, a lovely place, knuckledraggers to a man
You must blend in well

What a pathetic statement.

 

[derf]

To those about to dem.

don't be daft .. it is response to the attacks so is entirely relevent

I agree.
To those about do dem.

Keep it happy people - No violence.

Get the right message over to the people. Help the poor sods in Gaza.
I can't be with you but I'm there in spirit.
If there is a local dem here I'll be with them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Whilst not belittling in any way the horrific numbers of those killed in Gaza, it does beg the question why more haven't died.

In an 'all out war' scenario casuality numbers would become irrelevant surely?
Should Israel decide to to 'take the gloves off'so to speak can anyone even imagine the casualties?

Imagine if Israel started to 'carpet bomb' Gaza.............just as the Allies did during WW2 to numerous German cities.

The numbers killed so far are miniscule in reality considering what weapons and tactics the IDF are capable of utilising.

And to be quite honest should they decide to go 'all out' who precisely is going to stop them?
Once the deed is done it can never be prevented.

And for those who cry disproportionality in casualities, the simple answer is capability.
Perhaps the inability of groups such as Hamas or Hezbollah to obtain 'better' weapons needs questioning?
Perhaps the 'Arab' world has to answer why it maintains the status quo where the question of Palestinian refugees are concerned?

None of this matters to the people reading this here. It's all the same to them. 10 deaths = carpet bombing. 20 = ethnic cleansing.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I wonder if the Hamas missile attacks have tailed off since the invasion?

 

[nino_savatte]

I wonder how many more Gazan children have been murdered by the IDF...

 

[nino_savatte]

None of this matters to the people reading this here. It's all the same to them. 10 deaths = carpet bombing. 20 = ethnic cleansing.

Don't talk wet.

 

[nino_savatte]

don't be daft .. it is response to the attacks so is entirely relevent

Er, no, there is a forum for that sort of post. Are you trying to scupper any discussion on here? Because that's the way it looks to me.

 

[hipipol]

None of this matters to the people reading this here. It's all the same to them. 10 deaths = carpet bombing. 20 = ethnic cleansing.

You have the luck to live in a country that has never beem bombed JC
Were I live there are STILL gaps in the houses where Lutwaffe bombs killed people
I had Christmas dinner (this Christams and the last 3) with a 92 year old lady who has lived there all her life. To her that night 1942 is still vivid, the death of her Auntie and her best friend still a wound that aches
The life of few peole on the other side of the planet may not bother you much but to glibly pass it off as nothing only highlights that you are safe and cannot understand what it could be like