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Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza

Hold on, the nazis wanted to rule the nations which took the jews, so how would that work?

From the Simon Weisenthal centre

Answer to question 28

Two important factors should be noted. During the period prior to the outbreak of World War II, the Germans were in favor of Jewish emigration. At that time, there were no operative plans to kill the Jews. The goal was to induce them to leave, if necessary, by the use of force. It is also important to recognize the attitude of German Jewry. While many German Jews were initially reluctant to emigrate, the majority sought to do so following Kristallnacht (The Night of Broken Glass), November 9-10, 1938. Had havens been available, more people would certainly have emigrated.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/36quest2.html

The major problem with the Nazi plan is that no one was willing to take the refugees as you will see in the link above a number of possible destinations were mooted, all of them outside of Europe
 
you've not read Mein Kampf then?

Firstly please note the answer given to Taes question in the post above
At no point in Mein Kampf does Hitler state that he wants to kill every Jew

Apart from all else prior to the final stages however crazed they were the Nazis would rather have spent the wedge on weapons
 
Just in case you have missed the news the Israeli army has now started a ground offensive into Gaza.
The live feeds are showing more night bombing of Gaza city and news reports saying that loads of Palestinians are getting hit again with some Israeli troops dead. Estimated at 9 last I heard.

I suspect that if all the cash being spent on bombs, rockets, tanks and so on was spent on hospitals and services for the people of Gaza an the west bank there would be no need for the former.
Just by way of a bonus no kids have to get killed.
 
Firstly please note the answer given to Taes question in the post above
At no point in Mein Kampf does Hitler state that he wants to kill every Jew

Apart from all else prior to the final stages however crazed they were the Nazis would rather have spent the wedge on weapons

So what year was the book written and what years were the extermination camps running? That or maybe at the time of writing he knew it would have finished his political career. I'll bet there are a good few head jobs in the BNP that want to "kill all the niggers" but they know they can't say it because stupidity on that level will finish any slim chance they have.
People change especially total head cases with total power.:)
 
Answer to question 28
Thanks for that, though it does not answer the question entirely. Perhaps the Nazis simply had not thought it through.

As a side note, only a relatively small proportion of those who died in the camps were german, implying that most german jews had escaped from the nazis by that time.

And to be quite honest should they decide to go 'all out' who precisely is going to stop them?
If Israel openly carpet bombed Gaza, they would be making a big mistake.

They are dependent on western countries for arms and diplomatic cover. That is why public opinion, and public protest, is so important. The propaganda war has a huge significance here.
 
I know nothing of the MIddle East really but I would have thought that if one people know what it is like to be treated badly, starved, beaten by mass force, rounded up into ghettoes, treated as animals, etc, etc it would be the Jewish people after the Nazis.
So why are the Jewish people behaving like Nazis please?:confused:
 
Which would make you what precisely?
KATYUSHKA Was the name given to a multiple projectile launch system used by the Russians during WW2, the other combatants had their own versions but just like Hoover became the generic term for vacuum cleaners so Katyushka (Katherine in Russian) is used for such launch systems.
It was primarily an area bombardment system.
Point and shoot with the hope of hitting something/anything related to the Wehrmacht.
Can you see the connection?

God there are some cretins about on here.

Aye. I take it you define cretins as those posters

(a) who don't understand irony
(b) are keen to show off their encyclopediac knowledge of guns, weaponry etc (the sure sign of an arsehole if ever there was one)
(c) downplay war crimes

right?
 
So what year was the book written and what years were the extermination camps running? That or maybe at the time of writing he knew it would have finished his political career. I'll bet there are a good few head jobs in the BNP that want to "kill all the niggers" but they know they can't say it because stupidity on that level will finish any slim chance they have.
People change especially total head cases with total power.:)

I provided the link to the Weisenthal centres conclusion from its own exhaustive years of research hoping that anyone who wanted to comment would read it first rather than just plunge in and work out what they wanted to say as they went along - didn't work did it?
Hitlers really big idea prior to the war seems to have been in effect to sell his Jewish victims - the fact that no-one seemed to be prepared to cough up rather stopped that plan in its tracks.
The reason I made the point at first was to show the correllation between the "ethnic cleansing" carried out by Israel sending vast numbers of refugees into surrounding Arab states before 67, then in 67 overunning the refugee camps themselves when they took the West Bank of Jordan and the whole of Sinai from Egypt (the Golan doesn't figure in this - not many refugees up mountains!). Israel offered these refugees to the rest of the Arab world - they were somewhat reluctant to accept them - both Lebabnon and Libya had already seen what happens when a large number of radicalised and armed people interact with their own populations - the main reason why Egypt didn't want the people now in Gaza - well its also true to say that Israel wanted to keep the land and get rid of the peeps - very much like the Nazis in 38 - so instead they created a number of large scale Ghettos, Gaza being the biggest.
The term Hamas is used by Israelis as a synonim for terrorists - it would be better placed as a synonin for Irgun who are lionised in Israel.
They are now dealing with the "Palestinian Question" - having exhausted the cleansing option, they must now move to something else - I doubt extermination camps but tighter Ghettos (West Bank Wall, etc) coupled with mass slaughter - probably - in an attempt to cow them in to doing what they are told
Wont work, more death for many years to come I'm afraid
 
I know nothing of the MIddle East really but I would have thought that if one people know what it is like to be treated badly, starved, beaten by mass force, rounded up into ghettoes, treated as animals, etc, etc it would be the Jewish people after the Nazis.
So why are the Jewish people behaving like Nazis please?:confused:

Because what happened to them made many of them decide that they would never take shit from anyone ever again.

However, being a victim does not give you a licence to kill anyone you feel threatened by.
 
As a side note, only a relatively small proportion of those who died in the camps were german, implying that most german jews had escaped from the nazis by that time.

Germany had a relatively small, very assimilated Jewish population. Most of those murdered in the Shoah were from countries further East, particularly Poland, which had large Jewish populations.
 
So basically, you didn't bother reading what the guy who coined the term says it means.

Fine ... why bother ...

After all, it might conflict with the views you've already formed and that would be terrible.
yes i did and i qouted him .. what he says is NOT happening in palestine/israel ..
 
So...yup...genocide.
so explain the 1 million israeli arab citizens ( and 1.5 million arab residents ) with relegious and political rights who do not complain of genocide

show me another case of genocide where the same happens

this is simply nationalistic ethic cleansning on specific areas .. scummy and disgusting but neither holocaust nor genocide
 
yes i did and i qouted him .. what he says is NOT happening in palestine/israel ..
So not genocide then

What do you call it?
Ethnic cleansing? ( a nice mealy mouthed non phrase if there ever was one)
Thas soooooooo much better aint it?
 
I guess a better question might be 'what' do you use the logic on. The facts are pretty hard to dispute.

Israel's government does have clear fascist antecedents. (sources provided)

Israel is committing war crimes (according to the UN human rights lawyers)

Israel's current regime could reasonably be decribed as both genocidal (see definition of genocide by guy who coined the term) and neo-fascist (if we're going to call the BNP neo-fascist, given its antecedents and policies, it's logical to also describe Olmert's regime and any subsequent Likud regime as such)

so you must also wish israel destroyed ..i would argue that you should wish all those involved annihalated or executed

you also have the dilema of then why they do this .. please reply on the other thread ..
 
I could point you to perhaps a dozen instances (just off the top of my head) where Prime Ministers of the state of Israel voiced opinions that paralleled exactly the rhetoric of the Nazis. Take note that I'm not referring to "the Holocaust", but to ghetto-isation, to removal and denial of rights, to making territories "free" of inferior races, to the need for what the Nazis termed "lebensraum".

perhaps, durruti, it's you who have no idea. :(

so you too wish to associate israel with the nazis too?
.. idiot .. 6 million jews murdered, millions of slavs, homosexuals, gyspys, disabled, killed and operated on, their skin made into lampshades, etc etc .. concentration camps, death camps, gas chambers, a whole racist belief system ..

it is absurd and disgusting that you can associate the undeniable disgusting ultra nationalism and ethnic cleansing with nazism/fascism in germany in the 3ts/4ts
 
Have you any idea how thoroughly your post misses the point?

1) If you're going to equate now with then, you should be comparing either the state of Israel's current government with the Nazis, or the people of Israel with the people of Germany.

2) The people of pre-WW2 Germany (as I've said on here before, and been bleated at before because of it) weren't any more anti-Semitic than any other central Europeans of the time. Nazism is what ramped up an unpleasant social prejudice into mass murder.

3) That being so, isn't it at least possible that the government of the state of Israel might try to ramp up an unpleasant social prejudice against Palestinians into, if not mass murder, at least a contempt so deep that some Israelis might stand by while evil was done? Don't you think that at least part of the Zionist propaganda offensive has been aimed at de-humanising Gazans, and therefore, while not legitimating it, excusing their slaughter?
i have thought this thru thoroughtly over several decades sadly and what you say does not stand up

israel has not got more racist or fascist over the the last 40 years judging by it's govts, wars (shatilla was 82 right?) .. peoplee said same then but little has changed indeed since then israel has half heartedly given up gaza and west bank

youalso continue to ignire the logic of why israel does wht it does bbut wrong thread
 
so you too wish to associate israel with the nazis too?
.. idiot .. 6 million jews murdered, millions of slavs, homosexuals, gyspys, disabled, killed and operated on, their skin made into lampshades, etc etc .. concentration camps, death camps, gas chambers, a whole racist belief system ..

it is absurd and disgusting you you can associate the undeniable disgusting ultra nationalism and ethnic cleansing with nazism/fascism in germany in the 3ts/4ts

You need to read up on Ze'ev Jabotinsky and Revisionist Zionism; the analogy with fascism and Nazism is quite apposite.

In your rush to paint the Israelis as a poor, suffering people whose collective wounding in WWII justifies their savagery, you've forgotten the 25m Soviets who died at the hands of the Nazis.
 
btw new demo call for israeli embassey 2-4 today .. if feeling ok after eating ( got nasty cold/uri) i'll be going down ..
 
Firstly please note the answer given to Taes question in the post above
At no point in Mein Kampf does Hitler state that he wants to kill every Jew

Apart from all else prior to the final stages however crazed they were the Nazis would rather have spent the wedge on weapons
you would not kill a vampire at your neck? the logic is there in a differrent way to racism of israelis to jews

http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/documents/part1/doc4.html
 
like i said - the holocaust didn't begin overnight. in the 1930s there were several jews who profited to some extent from the nazi regime, as simply a level as their being able to find jobs due to improved economic conditions. if you view "the holocaust" as beginning and ending only with gas chambers and extermination camps from 1939 onwards you ignore the conditions created by the regime BEFORE the genocidal acts were carried out, to enable those acts to take place.

nobody would have said in 1933 or 1938 that hitler was committing genocide, for example.
 
So not genocide then

What do you call it?
Ethnic cleansing? ( a nice mealy mouthed non phrase if there ever was one)
Thas soooooooo much better aint it?

mealy mouthed? gtf

better? lol no,

but fundamentaly differrent

ethnic cleansing is sadly relatively common .. balkans , caucusus, congo etc etc and all involves refugee camps, bombing, terrorism ( bombing) of civilian populations ..

genoicide is the political (but more importantly in this ocntext where the parallels to the nazis are drawn aphilosophical) desire to wipe out a nation and it's people .. israel has 1 million arab citizens with relegious and political freedoms and has ( half heartedly it is clear ) given up the west bank and gaza .. this is NOT genocide
 
israeli politicians are constantly making statements that exactly correspond to those made by the nazis before and during WWII.
 
1)You need to read up on Ze'ev Jabotinsky and Revisionist Zionism; the analogy with fascism and Nazism is quite apposite.

2)In your rush to paint the Israelis as a poor, suffering people whose collective wounding in WWII justifies their savagery, you've forgotten the 25m Soviets who died at the hands of the Nazis.

1)nino i have beeen aware of jewish fascism since lenni brenner so for 25 years?

2)i am doing nothing of the sort .. i am trying to find esxplanation and hence solutions
 
israeli politicians are constantly making statements that exactly correspond to those made by the nazis before and during WWII.

what, that there is a worldwide arab conspiracy? that arabs are vampires that suck the blood of all decent people? etc etc etc etc .. and in germany this was a constantly escalating camapign .. there is no parallel in palestine/israel ..

http://mondediplo.com/1998/10/14vidal.

"Few historians still see a straight line leading from Mein Kampf to Auschwitz. True, once in power the Nazis lost no time in attacking the Jews. From the initial boycott declared on 1 April 1933, which was a flop, to Kristallnacht in November 1938, and from the Nuremberg laws of September 1935, via the aryanisation of businesses in 1937, to the final prohibition of all Jewish professional activity in 1939, the exclusion of the Jews from German society was a continuously escalating process. But until the outbreak of war, the stated objective was the expulsion of Jews to any countries that would have them. This included emigration to Palestine, which was the subject of an agreement with the Jewish Agency in August 1933 (12).

Speaking in the Reichstag on 30 January 1939, the Führer prophesied that a world war would spell the "annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe". Seven months later he launched the invasion of Poland, which brought ten times as many Jews under the Nazi yoke. From that point on, the regime began concentrating Jews in ghettos and camps, to which victims from other countries were soon deported. But at Hitler’s request, the Central Emigration Office directed by Adolf Eichmann continued to work towards the forcible transfer of four million Jews to Madagascar. It was only upon failure to reach agreement with London that the Madagascar project was abandoned. In the view of some historians, the fall-back solution was mass deportation beyond the Urals. All that remained was to conquer the Soviet Union.

Operation "Barbarossa", launched on 22 June 1941, was the great turning point. The "Rules of Conduct for Soldiers in Russia", quoted by Arno Mayer, required German troops to attack Bolshevik agitators, snipers, saboteurs and Jews "energetically and mercilessly" and to strive unremittingly to eliminate all active and passive resistance. With this official cover, the Wehrmacht and, above all, the 3,000 killers of the Einsatzgruppen, assisted by their local accomplices, committed increasingly horrific mass murders of civilians. It was the radicalisation of those massacres, and their extension to the whole of European Jewry, which, in the opinion of the large majority of historians, led to genocide in the proper meaning of the word (13). An outstanding historical issue is the actual date of the decision, and whether it was a written order or, as Christopher Browning argues, simply " a nod of the head" from the Führer. Some historians situate it during the period of preparation for the attack on Russia, others in the summer of 1941, in the euphoria following the first victories. Yet others think it was taken in the autumn, when the tide of war turned against Germany.

Arno Mayer argues that the era of old-style pogroms had passed and Nazi Germany had chosen to take the Jews as hostages in its desperate struggle, to make them the "privileged martyrs" of its ferocious crusade against Bolshevism, adding that the choice was now irrevocable. In mid-March 1942, 75% to 80% of the victims of the Shoah were still alive. A year later, the proportions were reversed."



"
 
genoicide is the political (but more importantly in this ocntext where the parallels to the nazis are drawn aphilosophical) desire to wipe out a nation and it's people .. israel has 1 million arab citizens with relegious and political freedoms and has ( half heartedly it is clear ) given up the west bank and gaza .. this is NOT genocide

there are some people within the Israeli government that definitely DO want to wipe out a nation and its people, obliterate the memory that there ever was a palestinian people in the first place.

Ilan Pappe explains this very well in his books. The massacres committed as part of ethnic cleansing are done to hasten the expulsion. To give a very crude and spurious example, let's say that Scotland wanted to invade England.

What they may do is surround a village and massacre its inhabitants, not because they want to wipe all the other people there out but because the residents of say Berwick upon Tweed were given an incentive to flee further down into England, so those places will be emptied. The other people living in these areas will hear the news of the massacres and they will flee, fulfilling the objectives of the scottish gov't. the scottish gov't don't want to wipe out the english people, they want to terrify them into moving and if they kill a whole load of them so much the better.

that is what ethnic cleansing is.


in the case of gaza the people of gaza have nowhere to flee to. they have been utterly dehumanised and stripped of all their dignity in the worst possible way. what would be gained by expelling the people of gaza out of that tiny area where they were expelled to in 1948? what is in gaza that israel wants? the sea? Israel already control access to the sea and they have more than enough of their own coastline?

If they want the palestinians simply to leave why are they refusing to let them leave, through the rafah crossing and elsewhere?

the notion of "the transfer" and that the land has to be completely ethnically pure is implicit in nationalist zionism, and if a population is unable to be completely cleansed from the land, what then? i think parallels can definitely made between Israel today and late 1930s Germany - note: not 1940s - or Rwanda during the 1980s or early 1990s. politicians, religious leaders and other public figures routinely come out with genocidal rhetoric about palestinians - it has become normalised both in the actions of the israeli state and the way people think about it.
 
there are some people within the Israeli government that definitely DO want to wipe out a nation and its people, obliterate the memory that there ever was a palestinian people in the first place.

Ilan Pappe explains this very well in his books. The massacres committed as part of ethnic cleansing are done to hasten the expulsion. To give a very crude and spurious example, let's say that Scotland wanted to invade England.

What they may do is surround a village and massacre its inhabitants, not because they want to wipe all the other people there out but because the residents of say Berwick upon Tweed were given an incentive to flee further down into England, so those places will be emptied. The other people living in these areas will hear the news of the massacres and they will flee, fulfilling the objectives of the scottish gov't. the scottish gov't don't want to wipe out the english people, they want to terrify them into moving and if they kill a whole load of them so much the better.

that is what ethnic cleansing is.


in the case of gaza the people of gaza have nowhere to flee to. they have been utterly dehumanised and stripped of all their dignity in the worst possible way. what would be gained by expelling the people of gaza out of that tiny area where they were expelled to in 1948? what is in gaza that israel wants? the sea? Israel already control access to the sea and they have more than enough of their own coastline?

If they want the palestinians simply to leave why are they refusing to let them leave, through the rafah crossing and elsewhere?

the notion of "the transfer" and that the land has to be completely ethnically pure is implicit in nationalist zionism, and if a population is unable to be completely cleansed from the land, what then? i think parallels can definitely made between Israel today and late 1930s Germany - note: not 1940s - or Rwanda during the 1980s or early 1990s. politicians, religious leaders and other public figures routinely come out with genocidal rhetoric about palestinians - it has become normalised both in the actions of the israeli state and the way people think about it.
so explain the 1 million arab israeli citizens and the handing back of the west abnk and gaza ..
 
ethnic cleansing is sadly relatively common ..
genoicide is the political (but more importantly in this ocntext where the parallels to the nazis are drawn aphilosophical) desire to wipe out a nation and it's people .. israel has 1 million arab citizens with relegious and political freedoms and has ( half heartedly it is clear ) given up the west bank and gaza .. this is NOT genocide

Relatively common makes it seem you feel it acceptable, that is entirely reasonable - you spaek as if your self image is of some world weary yet wise one. I hope I am protected from such "wisdom"

I will ask the question - Can you see a situation where an Arab-Israeli could ever become Prime Minister? Even those Arabs with Israeli passports stand little chance of breaking into any position of politcal or economic power.
Given up the West Bank and Gaza? I can only assume you live in some parrallel universe as this is NOT whats happening in the world I live in

You seem to have swallowed the entire Hebrew-NewSpeak dictionary - I cant get my head round the fact that you look at the same world as I yet see it in an entirely arse about face way.
Had we been speaking about the Mau Mau and British troops in Kenya, or rather as it was East Africa Colony, I wonder how you would see it?
 
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